Sad, but I think I’m out

[tivoboy]

This is truly funny. We're back to where I originally stated in post #177:



Don't know where your data came from (some AI perhaps) but the Fed Reserve data shows different. The top 10 percentile holds less real estate as a part of their total net worth than the below 90 percentile. In other words, there should be more than 8 million people that are liquid millionaires.

I have a copy of this years UBS global wealth report.

That chart doesn't contradict was I put above.. of COURSE the top 10% have less real estate as a percentage of their wealth than the bottom 90%.. they own BUSINESSES and equities, and private equity and other real assets.. but unless they are into commercial or real estate is their business, the bottom 90% is going to have more "net worth" in real estate most likely.

PER FRED, the top 10% is a group with entry ~ $1.5M.. that's all. The chart you posted puts 99% of that 10% with (90-99%)~ 15% of their assets in at least real estate, and other business are NON liquid assets. That is another 5% at least..for a potion of that group their is probably a fair amount of PE, that is also not considered a liquid asset, nor is any pension obligations. (although they might consider a redemption value, now we're cutting hairs)..

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[mkhuffman]

Who cares how many millionaires we have? Actually, the more the better. I want everyone to be entrepreneurs and generate wealth for themselves and their families while they serve others and are paid for the value they provide. What a great thing capitalism is.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Who cares how many millionaires we have? Actually, the more the better. I want everyone to be entrepreneurs and generate wealth for themselves and their families while they serve others and are paid for the value they provide. What a great thing capitalism is.

I don’t think you know how millionaire status works

 

[runwithscissors]

Who cares how many millionaires we have? Actually, the more the better. I want everyone to be entrepreneurs and generate wealth for themselves and their families while they serve others and are paid for the value they provide. What a great thing capitalism is.

Agreed, people talk like there is a fixed pie of wealth and if you get a larger piece, you're somehow taking from them.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Agreed, people talk like there is a fixed pie of wealth and if you get a larger piece, you're somehow taking from them.

Well that’s the rub, my friend. There is only a fixed pie of wealth! It’s fixed at 100%. The total value may go up, but what matters is what % you have. Because if you have $20M but the average person has $100M, you don’t have much.

A bigger % is going to less and less people.

 

[richguess]

Before you buy a car cash, you have to consider your opportunity costs. If you have 60K lying around, hopefully you're earning more than 6% on it in an investment account.

Not without at least some risk. You can get good (interest rate sensitive) preferreds for 6+ % and qualified dividends. Absolute safety is about half of that. And fully taxable if in a CD.

 

[tivoboy]

Not without at least some risk. You can get good (interest rate sensitive) preferreds for 6+ % and qualified dividends. Absolute safety is about half of that. And fully taxable if in a CD.

Absolute safety for INTEREST RATE RETURN is ~ 4.2- 4.5% depending on duration..but of course if a nuclear bomb goes off anything can destroy principle.
It’s all taxable these levels. Muni are between 3-4%, and a pretty high investment grade. AA/AAA

 

[richguess]

Just buying some muni’s, the CA returns are below the national average. Good quality 4% is the max. Good preferreds are 6-6.5% and can qualify for capital gains, 15-20% rate.

 

[R1S88]

Well that’s the rub, my friend. There is only a fixed pie of wealth! It’s fixed at 100%. The total value may go up, but what matters is what % you have. Because if you have $20M but the average person has $100M, you don’t have much.

A bigger % is going to less and less people.

Purchasing power matters, not just relative rank. If you have $20 million today and it buys a private jet, multiple homes, world-class healthcare, and financial security, your standard of living is extraordinarily high—even if the average person somehow has $100 million. Relative status affects how people feel, but absolute purchasing power determines what you can actually consume.

...and, as already mentioned, The pie is not fixed. Wealth is not a zero-sum game. Innovation, productivity, capital investment, and technological progress increase the total amount of goods and services available. The world is dramatically wealthier today than it was 100 years ago, or 5 years ago, not because someone else lost wealth, but because the pie grew.

It's easy to demonize millionaires and billionaires, but it's a simplistic view.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

Purchasing power matters, not just relative rank. If you have $20 million today and it buys a private jet, multiple homes, world-class healthcare, and financial security, your standard of living is extraordinarily high—even if the average person somehow has $100 million. Relative status affects how people feel, but absolute purchasing power determines what you can actually consume.

...and, as already mentioned, The pie is not fixed. Wealth is not a zero-sum game. Innovation, productivity, capital investment, and technological progress increase the total amount of goods and services available. The world is dramatically wealthier today than it was 100 years ago, or 5 years ago, not because someone else lost wealth, but because the pie grew.

It's easy to demonize millionaires and billionaires, but it's a simplistic view.

In a world where the average person has $100M, the $20M person is not going to be able to buy a jet.

That’s because the real world teaches that it is a zero sum game. Costs go up because you can pay more. $20M is a fake number at that point. All that matters is how much you have relative to others, when it comes to whether you can afford anything. Look at the Bay Area. You can’t buy a house for less than $4M in the peninsula (one good for a family). So it doesn’t matter if you have a $5M net worth - you can’t do it. What matters is that there are enough $20M people to support the economy that prices you out.

So, your view that everyone has so much money that even the poorest person can afford a jet will not hold. Because in that $100M vs $20M scenario, the jet now costs $200M, not $25M. Because companies are not catering to the average person. Why? Because the economy can be propped up by less and less people, who have more and more money. Look at the US economy. It’s strong! But that’s because 20% of people can afford anything while 80% are hosed. The 20% can buy in 2026 what 50% needed to buy in 2000 to keep the economy going. So, more people are left out. Zero sum game!

That’s not demonizing people with money. It’s just pointing out that this is how the real world operates.

 

[R1S88]

In a world where the average person has $100M, the $20M person is not going to be able to buy a jet.

That’s because the real world teaches that it is a zero sum game. Costs go up because you can pay more. $20M is a fake number at that point. All that matters is how much you have relative to others, when it comes to whether you can afford anything. Look at the Bay Area. You can’t buy a house for less than $4M in the peninsula (one good for a family). So it doesn’t matter if you have a $5M net worth - you can’t do it. What matters is that there are enough $20M people to support the economy that prices you out.

So, your view that everyone has so much money that even the poorest person can afford a jet will not hold. Because in that $100M vs $20M scenario, the jet now costs $200M, not $25M. Because companies are not catering to the average person. Why? Because the economy can be propped up by less and less people, who have more and more money. Look at the US economy. It’s strong! But that’s because 20% of people can afford anything while 80% are hosed. The 20% can buy in 2026 what 50% needed to buy in 2000 to keep the economy going. So, more people are left out. Zero sum game!

That’s not demonizing people with money. It’s just pointing out that this is how the real world operates.

A jet is an extreme example, just like Bay Area housing. I don't think 80% are "hosed." Their standard of living is a lot higher than previous generations. Are they angry that others are doing a lot better, of course - that's human nature.

Apologies, if this is getting to far from Rivian talk.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

A jet is an extreme example, just like Bay Area housing. I don't think 80% are "hosed." Their standard of living is a lot higher than previous generations. Are they angry that others are doing a lot better, of course - that's human nature.

Apologies, if this is getting to far from Rivian talk.

While I think that’s generally true, it’s becoming less true. I know many folks in the “flyover states.” The current generation is the first in a while that is worse off than their parents.

Ok, back to Rivian. R2 sales are looking good and more people are coming into the Rivian family. Rock and roll!

 

[captainjp]

Wow.

This forum used to be interesting.
holy jeez

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