My son used the R2 emergency door handle release for the first time yesterday.

[srkz]

I've only been in a handful of cars that override the lock when pulling on the latch release handle.

Old cars didn’t do this but I haven’t been in any cars since 2020 that don’t override the lock from the inside. If not on the first pull then on two consecutive pulls. The gen 1 R1 takes two pulls as do most European cars but like even a Honda Civic will unlock and unlatch from the inside on a single pull.

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[srkz]

Are you framing that as a question or stating it as a fact? I don't think it is supposed to lose responsiveness at any point, and if it does that is probably a software bug that should be reported so they can address it.

Well the story is that OP’s son sat in the car too long before getting out and then wasn’t able to get out using the normal eLatch button. I’m just interpreting the story as presented.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Are you framing that as a question or stating it as a fact? I don't think it is supposed to lose responsiveness at any point, and if it does that is probably a software bug that should be reported so they can address it.

These latches are not novel. Many cars have electronic door releases that are not connected by cable to the physical latch (or at least not at the first pull stop). The manual latch releases are not meant to be used in normal situations, including when the car is idle. If you find yourself needing to reach for the manual release outside of a system failure, something is wrong.

I think he was just flummoxed that you can't use the button to exit through the rear door if the car is centrally locked, i.e., walkaway lock. OP's son is old enough that he gets in and out of the car on his own, so child locks would not be enabled.

So if the car is locked, he should STILL be able to exit while he is in it—he shouldn't have to use the emergency release.

Both of our cars have electronic rear latches in the rear. My 10-year-old has lollygagged in the rear seat when we pulled into the garage. I go into the house; the car locks as I walk away with him still in there farting around. He still presses the button to get out.

I think that's what @srkz is getting at.

 

[emroch]

Well the story is that OP’s son sat in the car too long before getting out and then wasn’t able to get out using the normal eLatch button. I’m just interpreting the story as presented.

Sure, and I bet in a software release or two we'll see the release notes say "fixed a rare issue causing the door to stay locked when pressing the e-latch when no key is detected" or something like that. Just because one person reports something doesn't mean it's intended behavior. It also could have been user error. Did the kid press multiple times? Did he press in quick enough succession? All I'm saying is that if something seems ridiculous and unsafe, chances are it's not meant to be that way or you're missing part of the picture.

 

[LivingInKaos]

Old cars didn’t do this but I haven’t been in any cars since 2020 that don’t override the lock from the inside. If not on the first pull then on two consecutive pulls. The gen 1 R1 takes two pulls as do most European cars but like even a Honda Civic will unlock and unlatch from the inside on a single pull.

On the R1, the two pull only works with a key around.

 

[srkz]

Sure, and I bet in a software release or two we'll see the release notes say "fixed a rare issue causing the door to stay locked when pressing the e-latch when no key is detected" or something like that. Just because one person reports something doesn't mean it's intended behavior. It also could have been user error. Did the kid press multiple times? Did he press in quick enough succession? All I'm saying is that if something seems ridiculous and unsafe, chances are it's not meant to be that way or you're missing part of the picture.

I mean I agree that this can’t be intentional behavior because it’s not how doors are supposed to work, but that’s also my point.

The fact that entrapment risk becomes nebulously tied to software bugs when you switch to eLatches feels like gaining some (perhaps tiny) risk on the customer side to get some (perhaps tiny) cost-savings on the manufacturer side, and that’s just not the kind of area where you want to see cost cutting measures.

 

[srkz]

On the R1, the two pull only works with a key around.

I find it hard to believe this is true but I also can’t test it because my R1 has been in the shop for two weeks lol.

edit: the owner’s manual doesn’t say anything about needing a key, it just says “if the door is locked, pull twice to open”

 

[HaveBlue]

I've only been in a handful of cars that override the lock when pulling on the latch release handle. Most of the time if the door is locked you need to find the lock/unlock button on the armrest/door panel and unlock then pull the handle.

If you're sitting in the car and the doors lock, it is not hard to escape. I know in pet mode the e-latch is disabled so the dog doesn't hit it accidentally, but pressing it 5 times overrides and opens the door.

Could be. Our BMW you just pull the handle twice. Once to unlock and once to open. The Lexus has a mechanical unlock lever that also operates off a motor. I can't recall how the Audi works other than having mechanical door releases.

 

[Zevo]

The fact that entrapment risk becomes nebulously tied to software bugs when you switch to eLatches feels like gaining some (perhaps tiny) risk on the customer side to get some (perhaps tiny) cost-savings on the manufacturer side, and that’s just not the kind of area where you want to see cost cutting measures.

I think there is more benefit there than just cost savings (which may or may not be real once you factor in the electronic components vs. mechanical, I have no idea). For instance, you can engage child locks in real time from the front seat or have the car override child locks in the case of an accident.

You can also (although I haven't seen anyone do this yet, but all the pieces are there) trigger a warning if a person/bike/vehicle is approaching the path of the door opening and make the person click again to force the issue. I have to imagine that significantly more people are hurt by getting hit with a surprise door opening than are by being trapped because the electronic lock didn't work properly.

 

[srkz]

For instance, you can engage child locks in real time from the front seat or have the car override child locks in the case of an accident.

You can also (although I haven't seen anyone do this yet, but all the pieces are there) trigger a warning if a person/bike/vehicle is approaching the path of the door opening and make the person click again to force the issue.

Both of these things are possible and currently implemented in cars you can buy today using mechanical latches and handles. Basically there's just a button on the driver's door that you can press that mechanically engages and disengages the child locks on the rears. This way you have central child locks you can engage in real time from the front seat, the child locks can be disabled automatically in the event of an accident, they can be temporarily engaged to prevent egress if a vehicle is approaching, and the other 95% of the time when you're not using child locks the unlocked doors still work mechanically and don't need any 12V to function at all from the inside or the outside. Even the "pull twice to unlock and open" mechanism is mechanical and doesn't need 12V for egress.

That's why I say there is no benefit to the customer for eLatch - all of the benefits can be accomplished mechanically and are already done that way in at least some cars. The only benefit eLatch has over this central child lock system is that it's cheaper to implement because it has far fewer and less sophisticated mechanical parts.

edit: Here's Hyundai's version of the safe exist assist:

 

[Dark-Fx]

So OP has framed this as a good thing, but uh… the car just goes to sleep and effectively locks passengers inside by being unresponsive after a few minutes even with the doors “unlocked” necessitating a hidden emergency release? It’s actually baffling me that anyone is okay with eLatches at all, the whole concept seems egregiously inconvenient at best and still somewhat dangerous at worst.

You must really hate child locks then.

I took one for the team and locked myself inside. Hitting the button twice still unlocks a locked car. I suppose I probably need to make sure my kids know that too.

 

[Millbarge]

Mechanical latches or mechanical locks? A mechanical latch wouldn't do crap if the door was still locked and no key around.

that's not necessarily true. BMW and other Euro makes allow you to pull the latch 2x to open a locked door--one pull unlocks the door, the 2nd pull opens it

 

[srkz]

You must really hate child locks then.

Honestly my parents never used them, I’ve never used them, and I’ve never been in a car where they were being used on purpose. So mostly indifferent.

The child lock story is a red herring as far as eLatches are concerned. They don’t do anything better, they just accomplish the same goal with fewer parts.

Glad to hear it wasn’t a bug though! Just an education thing.

Which, you know, also isn’t something you have to do if you have normal handles.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Honestly my parents never used them, I’ve never used them, and I’ve never been in a car where they were being used on purpose. So mostly indifferent.

The child lock story is a red herring as far as eLatches are concerned. They don’t do anything better, they just accomplish the same goal with fewer parts.

Glad to hear it wasn’t a bug though! Just an education thing.

Which, you know, also isn’t something you have to do if you have normal handles.

You sure? Normal handles are all double pull when locked these days. You're welcome for the education.

 

[emroch]

Just an education thing.

Which, you know, also isn’t something you have to do if you have normal handles.

Not necessarily true, that may just be because you and I grew up in a time where most cars had very uniform handles. Kids born today may primarily experience E-latches and find them very intuitive with regular handles being archaic.

I suspect you have no issue using a mouse/trackpad with your computer. When the mouse was first introduced there were entire training courses on how to navigate using a mouse. Microsoft Windows even had games preinstalled dedicated to teaching you how to click and drag (I believe Solitaire and Minesweeper started out that way and stuck around because people enjoyed them).

My point is that once you're used to a particular UX, a change can seem unintuitive or like a step backward. But to someone who is not already used to it the same way you are, it may be a non-issue (or even an improvement).

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