Warning, this is a rant. I hate that they got rid of basic voice commands

[savethemanual]

Holy Crapola man, I didn't say that the vehicle is a complete hazard to operate... Did I?
I said it was less safe. Which is accurate.

You’re sure acting like it.

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[shadow_tek001]

You’re sure acting like it.

I could say the same of you.

 

[savethemanual]

I could say the same of you.

I agree that it's "less safe" when one can't dictate basic commands to a vehicle when driving, you agree that it's not a complete hazard losing the ability to dictate these commands. Sounds like we're on the same page then. Cheers!

 

[shadow_tek001]

I agree that it's "less safe" when one can't dictate basic commands to a vehicle when driving, you agree that it's not a complete hazard losing the ability to dictate these commands. Sounds like we're on the same page then. Cheers!

Okee doke

 

[whiterock2000]

Totally agree with you. This is not acceptable at all. This is not the first time Rivian misleading its customer, just like the misleading L3 claim for G1. . I will join to sue them.

 

[SDH]

I don’t think the answer is regulation. Hard to regulate and reinforce, and some wise ass lawyer will find a way round it.

The best way to get a company to not do this stuff is for the consumer to vote with their feet. Buy a car from a company that doesn’t do this. A savvy competitor will see Rivian doing this and say “hey buy our car, we don’t do this”.

Rivian will soon stop this practice when demand dries up.

 

[savethemanual]

I don’t think the answer is regulation. Hard to regulate and reinforce, and some wise ass lawyer will find a way round it.

The best way to get a company to not do this stuff is for the consumer to vote with their feet. Buy a car from a company that doesn’t do this. A savvy competitor will see Rivian doing this and say “hey buy our car, we don’t do this”.

Rivian will soon stop this practice when demand dries up.

Exactly, this applies to all things in the capitalistic world in which we live....VOTE WITH YOUR WALLET!

I'm still voting for Rivian though, this issue is small cookies for me. There are many other companies way worse IMO.

 

[Alan in Tempe]

You’re sure acting like it.

You are the one acting like he said something that he did not say. You created this strawman argument to have something to rail against.

 

[savethemanual]

You are the one acting like he said something that he did not say. You created this strawman argument to have something to rail against.

OMG, I can't talk to my car to turn up the temp or activate recirculate or other basic free features!

Watch the OP's video again, he strait up says the vehicle is "unsafe" at the 1:02 mark. That is simply not true. With the overall tone and saying the vehicle is "unsafe" he is being hyperbolic. Again, it sucks Rivian did this, but the vehicle is by no means unsafe to operate.

 

[shadow_tek001]

OMG, I can't talk to my car to turn up the temp or activate recirculate or other basic free features!

Watch the OP's video again, he strait up says the vehicle is "unsafe" at the 1:02 mark. That is simply not true. With the overall tone and saying the vehicle is "unsafe" he is being hyperbolic. Again, it sucks Rivian did this, but the vehicle is by no means unsafe to operate.

Well... I mean it literally is unsafe to operate a touch screen while driving, that's kinda hard to argue.

 

[savethemanual]

Well... I mean it literally is unsafe to operate a touch screen while driving, that's kinda hard to argue.

Well you should start a class action lawsuit then, rake them over the coals!!

 

[portdirect]

Where exactly are you quoting this from? It's important to see the context, especially when legal terms are being discussed. If you're referring to https://rivian.com/legal/terms in Section 18, that refers to "Rivian Applications" or mobile apps. I don't see how that section allows them to remove basic car functionality.

@portdirect: So you think this gives Rivian the right to remove the navigation entirely, unless you pay for Connect+? And you would be OK with that? Navigation is probably the biggest use of bandwidth, so if it were a matter of making money they could save huge on making people pay a monthly fee for their navigation. Or how about the controls to open the frunk etc. from the center screen? What if they charged you for being able to redirect the HVAC vents? (we're treading in BMW territory here ...)

It's perfectly reasonable and expected for Rivian to charge for streaming data that is discretionary. Like you would need for video streaming or Apple Music. They have said all along they were going to do that. But it is not acceptable for Rivian to start charging for a basic feature of the vehicle that has always been free, like voice commands or navigation. And they have never before moved formerly free services into Connect+ before.



Again, it's not about monetizing things that cost Rivian money, like extra streaming data. That's not being questioned. It's about a basic function that is free to Rivian and has always been free to all customers for more than 4 years now, which is being removed. Voice commands. Are we going to have to pay for the ability to turn on our seat ventilation next?



Like what, exactly? I don't think they've taken anything away ever, except now with the voice commands. Prove me wrong.

Apologies for the late reply. I wanted to go back and read the document again rather than respond from memory.

Having done that, I don't think the scope is particularly difficult to follow.

Section 1 is titled Applicability, and it defines what Rivian means by "Services" throughout the document. It expressly includes Rivian's products, including Rivian vehicles, as well as applications, software and vehicles. It then says each of those is a "Service".

It also explicitly says that placing an order for a Rivian vehicle means accepting these terms.

So when Section 18 subsequently says Rivian may remove or deprecate functionality from the "Rivian Apps and/or Services", "Services" is not an undefined term that we need to infer from the heading "Rivian Applications". Rivian already defined it, several sections earlier, and vehicles are explicitly within that definition.

Section 12 reinforces the same distinction. It separately says Rivian can terminate or suspend all or part of your access and rights to the Rivian Services at any time without notice.

I completely agree that there are limits to what Rivian could realistically get away with here. If they remotely disabled propulsion tomorrow and pointed to this clause, I doubt "but you agreed to the terms" would get them very far. There are warranties, consumer protection laws, representations made at sale and basic reasonable expectations about what it means to purchase a vehicle.

The interesting problem is everything between those extremes.

If Rivian removed scheduled charging, automatic ride-height behavior, remote climate control, the surround-view cameras, or an infotainment-based control while leaving some other means of performing the underlying function, the vehicle would plainly still be a vehicle. But it would also plainly have less functionality than the one you bought.

That's the grey area I was talking about.

So to be clear, I'm not saying I like this, nor that Rivian can necessarily enforce this language in every conceivable circumstance. I'm saying Rivian drafted a remarkably broad set of terms, and on a straightforward reading of the document I don't think the argument that "Services" here means only the phone apps is supportable.

And that is rather the point of my original comment. We can dislike Rivian taking functionality away while also recognizing that, whether we noticed it or not, we bought into an ecosystem whose terms reserve them a considerable amount of latitude to do exactly that.

 

[GRSmith]

I think there is also the question of whether they permanently took away the basic commands. I think they will be adding some back since their website still clearly says they have them.

 

[R1TCntrlMaIzzy]

And the OP, aside from having an issue with the changes, might be looking for more clicks on the content.

 

[2kwik4u]

I didn't say that the vehicle is a complete hazard to operate... Did I?

Yea, ya kinda did. In a video no less. I highlighted the captions for clarity.

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