Dark-Fx
Well-Known Member
Angles aren't as good as a base Wrangler, but I'd bet that the R2 is better on anything anyone's going to encounter outside of "offroad trails".
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Compact EV SUV space getting crowded - BMW iX3, Volvo XC60, Polestar 3, Model Y, R2
M3_R2
Well-Known Member
I like a more traditional, at least mildly off-road capable SUV as much as most here do but recognize that people who are really into off-road recreation are buying vehicles specifically for that purpose and mainstream SUV owners almost never take their vehicles off-road in a way that even matters to either industry. And with their cost, esp for BEV's, it's no wonder.
Meanwhile, mfg's love them because they are more profitable.
They market them to appeal to our (false) perceptions of safety and control from a higher seating position and general sense of identity. SUVs sell the fantasy of capability, not the reality of usage. Not to say there aren't some appealing features such as easier ingress/egress and storage.
They also tend to allow more room for batteries so for BEV's the form factor works well though weight and drag impact their efficiency.
It will be interesting to see how the market share for EV SUV's plays out. Subaru Uncharted also seems to have a capable offering. Scout will be out later next year or so and very off-road capable.
But this is no different than the ICE range of SUV options and to be expected as the EV industry matures. There's lots of room for everyone.
I'm not normally one that chases shiny objects but have found myself liking the R2 and Scout and then the iX3 and now the EX60.
Buying a vehicle is always about managing your compromises and in respect to costs. One thing I've decided is that I don't need locking differentials and bone jarring stiffness.
I prefer the R2 and the EX60 for their supercharger friendly charge port locations. I think they will both do well, at least in the short term. The Cross-Country looks good. Rivian is developing their software in-house whereas Volvo is relying on Google for AAOS and Gemini.
As RJ has said, they have more software engineers than automotive. Whether this will be their super power, I'm not sure. Yet to be determined.
The EX60 is as important to Volvo as the iX3 is to BMW. I think Volvo has done a very good job on the EX60 and if companies keep coming out with products like this, I don't see the R2 grabbing a ton of market share but I do see them surviving which is what they need to eventually realize return on their investments in software.
Meanwhile, mfg's love them because they are more profitable.
They market them to appeal to our (false) perceptions of safety and control from a higher seating position and general sense of identity. SUVs sell the fantasy of capability, not the reality of usage. Not to say there aren't some appealing features such as easier ingress/egress and storage.
They also tend to allow more room for batteries so for BEV's the form factor works well though weight and drag impact their efficiency.
It will be interesting to see how the market share for EV SUV's plays out. Subaru Uncharted also seems to have a capable offering. Scout will be out later next year or so and very off-road capable.
But this is no different than the ICE range of SUV options and to be expected as the EV industry matures. There's lots of room for everyone.
I'm not normally one that chases shiny objects but have found myself liking the R2 and Scout and then the iX3 and now the EX60.
Buying a vehicle is always about managing your compromises and in respect to costs. One thing I've decided is that I don't need locking differentials and bone jarring stiffness.
I prefer the R2 and the EX60 for their supercharger friendly charge port locations. I think they will both do well, at least in the short term. The Cross-Country looks good. Rivian is developing their software in-house whereas Volvo is relying on Google for AAOS and Gemini.
As RJ has said, they have more software engineers than automotive. Whether this will be their super power, I'm not sure. Yet to be determined.
The EX60 is as important to Volvo as the iX3 is to BMW. I think Volvo has done a very good job on the EX60 and if companies keep coming out with products like this, I don't see the R2 grabbing a ton of market share but I do see them surviving which is what they need to eventually realize return on their investments in software.
Donald Stanfield
Well-Known Member
I've seen the R2 in person, and it does not have more room than an R1S with the rear seat folded down. That's why we ultimately went with the R1S.
mkg3
Well-Known Member
Agree to a certain point.
At the lower price range for new autos, the statement is close to 100% true. The thing is, as the price increases, the construct start to fall apart.
At the higher prices, people tend to buy what they want and not compromise so much. I am not talking about comparing $150K SUV to a $50 SUV; rather within the price range of affordability (this is not compromise, this is being responsible), my sense is that people buy/lease the vehicle and the options they want.
So in this thread's context, I believe people will buy R2, EX60 or iX3 based on preference of the vehicle, not because one is few hundred or even a thousand dollars lower over another.
Time2Roll
Well-Known Member
Great to see EVs moving to take over the relatively fuel hungry SUV market in all sizes.
The EV Econo box is overrated IMO.
Although some of these seem more blending into hatchback crossovers.
The EV Econo box is overrated IMO.
Although some of these seem more blending into hatchback crossovers.
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M3_R2
Well-Known Member
Yes, at least we are talking about EV's.
I am definitely cross shopping the R2, EX60 P12 and iX3 50. I'm also a big fan of the R1T. Each has their pros/cons. So to me, even among these, it's about managing my compromises.
For example, I would prefer a supercharger friendly charge port location. The EX60 has it. The others don't. Yes, in some years from now, it won't likely matter but right now, in my range of travel/trips, it does very much.
Size-wise, I've had diesel trucks, minivans, SUV's and sedans. If you truly need the space, you buy what you can to meet those needs but in reality, many are overspending on size because that's the lifestyle or image they want to project. At least in the general public. Likely less so here so I don't mean to be preachy. I just find it interesting. I'm still capable of leaning in that direction myself.
If you need the space for people and/or work, then you need it. I don't anymore so have scaled down accordingly. But there aren't a lot of good sedan EV options out there as everyone looks to enter the much larger and often more profitable crossover and SUV space. Esp in Canada where Lucid incurs a tariff just like Rivian, and the Model S will be no longer. This leaves only the MB EQS Sedan I think as the sole, non-tariffed option. And it is $140-$160k so you will also be paying $8k+ in luxury tax as our gov't has decided to make a tax grab out of that and haven't increased it along with inflation. So really there are no good options right now for a large-ish luxury sedan. If there were, I might consider those as well.
I really like the R1T. I was looking hard at an R1T Tri in Dec '25. No tariffs then and there were discounts to be had. And no CDN luxury tax due to the weight. But I had a fairly new model 3 at the time so it wasn't the wisest choice financially. In hindsight, I probably should have done it but I think I'd be equally happy in an EX60. An R2, esp in TRI would also be of interest but only without tariffs. I don't need the speed but I do appreciate having it.
EX60 features I like:
10 year battery warranty (requires Volvo only servicing)
Fantastic sound system and support for Tidal High-Res natively with AAOS downloadable app
Heated Wipers
Fast off the line (P12 trim) but low top speed for safety and low insurance rates
Very safe vehicle generally
Not locked into massive tires on upper trims
25,600 pixel adaptive headlights
Excellent air purification and cabin pre-cleaning
Front and side radar
ALL glass except tailgate is laminated.
2400kg / 5291 lb towing is reasonable
I like it's front end a lot but not a big fan of the rear. Very station wagon like but so are many cross-overs.
A number of these features won't be found on other vehicles. Tidal is only available natively on the Lucid and Tesla's. No one else has laminated glass all around. Compromises.
Insurance can very substantially between them all. In my area, Tesla is high. BMW is high. Volvo is low. Trucks are low.
Research shows that people overwhelmingly buy vehicles emotionally, not analytically. This is because vehicles are tied to identity, status, aesthetics and self-expression.
It's why Scout plays up their heritage and Rivian plays up "adventure". It sells!
I am definitely cross shopping the R2, EX60 P12 and iX3 50. I'm also a big fan of the R1T. Each has their pros/cons. So to me, even among these, it's about managing my compromises.
For example, I would prefer a supercharger friendly charge port location. The EX60 has it. The others don't. Yes, in some years from now, it won't likely matter but right now, in my range of travel/trips, it does very much.
Size-wise, I've had diesel trucks, minivans, SUV's and sedans. If you truly need the space, you buy what you can to meet those needs but in reality, many are overspending on size because that's the lifestyle or image they want to project. At least in the general public. Likely less so here so I don't mean to be preachy. I just find it interesting. I'm still capable of leaning in that direction myself.
If you need the space for people and/or work, then you need it. I don't anymore so have scaled down accordingly. But there aren't a lot of good sedan EV options out there as everyone looks to enter the much larger and often more profitable crossover and SUV space. Esp in Canada where Lucid incurs a tariff just like Rivian, and the Model S will be no longer. This leaves only the MB EQS Sedan I think as the sole, non-tariffed option. And it is $140-$160k so you will also be paying $8k+ in luxury tax as our gov't has decided to make a tax grab out of that and haven't increased it along with inflation. So really there are no good options right now for a large-ish luxury sedan. If there were, I might consider those as well.
I really like the R1T. I was looking hard at an R1T Tri in Dec '25. No tariffs then and there were discounts to be had. And no CDN luxury tax due to the weight. But I had a fairly new model 3 at the time so it wasn't the wisest choice financially. In hindsight, I probably should have done it but I think I'd be equally happy in an EX60. An R2, esp in TRI would also be of interest but only without tariffs. I don't need the speed but I do appreciate having it.
EX60 features I like:
10 year battery warranty (requires Volvo only servicing)
Fantastic sound system and support for Tidal High-Res natively with AAOS downloadable app
Heated Wipers
Fast off the line (P12 trim) but low top speed for safety and low insurance rates
Very safe vehicle generally
Not locked into massive tires on upper trims
25,600 pixel adaptive headlights
Excellent air purification and cabin pre-cleaning
Front and side radar
ALL glass except tailgate is laminated.
2400kg / 5291 lb towing is reasonable
I like it's front end a lot but not a big fan of the rear. Very station wagon like but so are many cross-overs.
A number of these features won't be found on other vehicles. Tidal is only available natively on the Lucid and Tesla's. No one else has laminated glass all around. Compromises.
Insurance can very substantially between them all. In my area, Tesla is high. BMW is high. Volvo is low. Trucks are low.
Research shows that people overwhelmingly buy vehicles emotionally, not analytically. This is because vehicles are tied to identity, status, aesthetics and self-expression.
It's why Scout plays up their heritage and Rivian plays up "adventure". It sells!
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savethemanual
Well-Known Member
Yet another EV is going 800v Architecture with faster DCFC, yes this is a Mercedes sedan but the trend is heading in this direction for the entire industry. Rivian will need to up their DCFC speeds at some point sooner rather than later to stay competitive, for many it is a big deal!
https://insideevs.com/news/792767/mercedes-eqs-facelift-800-volt/
https://insideevs.com/news/792767/mercedes-eqs-facelift-800-volt/
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OP
carsly
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The overwhelming majority of owners do not DC fast charge or do so very infrequently - just a few times a year. So for them, 400v vs 800v is as academic as a 22 gallon vs 18 gallon gas tank.
That said, I'd like to see more battery innovation, more so around energy density than fast charging speeds. I'd rather charge overnight and have 400+ miles of range on board without an overly massive battery back. In mild to hot conditions Cybertruck gets very close to this range, I've done 360-370 multiple times carrying passengers and a full-size spare on my 35" all terrains - not an aero optimized setup by any means. My R1S Dual Large might get to 250 miles, but with CCS and its slower charging we don't use it for road trips.
savethemanual
Well-Known Member
Why is the industry moving in the direction of faster DCFC (higher voltage) if it doesn’t matter?
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carsly
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Practically, it doesn’t matter for most buyers.
But neither do 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. How about top speed, ground clearance or max lateral G’s? For the most part, it’s all marketing to create perceptual segments to give companies an opportunity to differentiate and price discriminate buyers. Sure some of it matters at the edges, but not as much as OEM marketing teams would have you believe.
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Gen(R3)Xer
Well-Known Member
I think Rivian might consider this with the Gen 3 R1 line. The R2 and R3 will stay at 400V for now. They chose this set up to keep costs down.
savethemanual
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I get it...all hands on deck right now to get the R2/3 out the door with as little costs as possible and get those much needed sales going. RJ has stated faster DCFC times are coming at some point, I'm sure it's a ways off though. For me, it's something I would truly appreciate being a one car household. I do make several trips a year that would require DCFC when I eventually get the R2....which will be my 1st EV.
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Gen(R3)Xer
Well-Known Member
I think the R2 will be a great first EV. I’ll be trading in my Model 3 lease for mine, so it’ll be my second EV.
i was more concerned about charging on long trips at first, but now it’s no big deal. You don’t even have to charge up all the way. It’s just another way to power a vehicle. Time seems to pass by pretty quickly when you eat, use the restroom, stretch, etc. And you can always take a nap or watch some YouTube or NetFlix. I think this slower pace to traveling is good for me. No need to be in such a rush.
savethemanual
Well-Known Member
I've rented several EV's for my frequent road trips, so I'm fully aware. However, they are business related travels so less time in the vehicle is $ to me. It will be fine, there are so many other advantages in going with full BEV.
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