Sponsored

4695 Batteries + Structural Pack

DuoRivians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Threads
259
Messages
3,834
Reaction score
9,120
Location
California
Vehicles
R1T, R1S
What are people’s thoughts about voltage, charge/discharge rates, fast charging capabilities?

Also, can we expect this in R1 vehicles soon?
Sponsored

 

jjswan33

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joshua
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Threads
135
Messages
4,455
Reaction score
9,880
Location
Sandy, OR
Vehicles
Rivian R1T LE, Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited
Occupation
Engineer
Clubs
 

SANZC02

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bob
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Threads
50
Messages
7,445
Reaction score
12,749
Location
California
Vehicles
Tesla Model S, LE - R1S
Occupation
Retired
The press release said 10-80% in less than 30 min.

If less than 30 minutes actually means 20 minutes then we are ok. If it's really 30 min then it's not likely to be 800 volts in my opinion.

Edit: I mean the SEC release (https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1874178/000187417824000016/ex-991r2reveal.htm)

1709873648273.png
Ioniq 5 can do 18 minutes but it is only a 77 kWh battery so 10-80% is about 54 kWh.

If the R2 gets 3 miles per kWh then it would need at least a 100 kWh battery so it would need to charge 70 kWh Going 10-80%.

At an average of 3 kWh per minute for the Ioniq 5, if R2 could get the same rate it would be almost 24 minutes for a similar charge.
 

jjswan33

Well-Known Member
First Name
Joshua
Joined
Sep 17, 2021
Threads
135
Messages
4,455
Reaction score
9,880
Location
Sandy, OR
Vehicles
Rivian R1T LE, Hyundai Ioniq 5 Limited
Occupation
Engineer
Clubs
 
Ioniq 5 can do 18 minutes but it is only a 77 kWh battery so 10-80% is about 54 kWh.

If the R2 gets 3 miles per kWh then it would need at least a 100 kWh battery so it would need to charge 70 kWh Going 10-80%.

At an average of 3 kWh per minute for the Ioniq 5, if R2 could get the same rate it would be almost 24 minutes for a similar charge.
Agree with all your reasoning. I at first thought about the Ioniq 5 because I have a few thousand miles on mine now but that would be a better comparison for R3 probably.

Then I looked up the EV9 and that claims 10-80 in 24 min, and the pack there is ~100 kWh. So your math checks out. Of course the EV9 has similar battery voltage to the R1 so a true 800V class car could probably swing 20 minutes.
 

Sponsored

shrink

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2021
Threads
102
Messages
1,392
Reaction score
2,715
Location
Phoenix, AZ and Kailua-Kona, HI
Vehicles
'23 R1S Quad x 2; '26 Gen 2 R1T Quad Launch; '25 Ioniq 5; '24 Jeep Cherokee
Clubs
 
Rivian is apparently staying with 400v batteries. ?
I just read that, too - as posted by someone who was in attendance and said they spent several hours viewing and talking to Rivian staff.
 

KootenayEV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
614
Reaction score
589
Location
Nelson, BC
Vehicles
R1T, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Environmental Engineer
To be repetitive from other threads, unless they can really improve the thermal performance of the pack itself, it doesn't matter if it is 400v or 800v in practical terms, since at the cell level the voltage is the same (hence same amps etc into each cell and same amount of heat generated).
 

KootenayEV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
614
Reaction score
589
Location
Nelson, BC
Vehicles
R1T, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Environmental Engineer

Sponsored

OP
OP

DuoRivians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Threads
259
Messages
3,834
Reaction score
9,120
Location
California
Vehicles
R1T, R1S
To be repetitive from other threads, unless they can really improve the thermal performance of the pack itself, it doesn't matter if it is 400v or 800v in practical terms, since at the cell level the voltage is the same (hence same amps etc into each cell and same amount of heat generated).
Hyundai can do this now. So can a lot of Chinese brands. There’s no reason Rivian’s car coming out in 2026 shouldn’t be able to.
 

KootenayEV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
614
Reaction score
589
Location
Nelson, BC
Vehicles
R1T, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Environmental Engineer
Hyundai can do this now. So can a lot of Chinese brands. There’s no reason Rivian’s car coming out in 2026 shouldn’t be able to.
I've yet to see concrete reasons for why to do it though that are customer facing. Maybe if we were talking a really large pack where we wanted 350kW charging speeds (for a significant length of time) I suppose you might because otherwise the cables become too thick to handle those kind of amps at 500V, but at the moment, a charging cable capable of 250kW (e.g. Supercharger v3/4) is available and that charge rate stretches the reasonable C-rate that chemistries with good energy density are capable of.

I would love to see honest analysis of the issue from someone at Rivian (or another company) - otherwise it just strikes to me of being a stat-line that the PR people can point to and people get excited over - "bigger = better".
 
OP
OP

DuoRivians

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2022
Threads
259
Messages
3,834
Reaction score
9,120
Location
California
Vehicles
R1T, R1S
I've yet to see concrete reasons for why to do it though that are customer facing. Maybe if we were talking a really large pack where we wanted 350kW charging speeds (for a significant length of time) I suppose you might because otherwise the cables become too thick to handle those kind of amps at 500V, but at the moment, a charging cable capable of 250kW (e.g. Supercharger v3/4) is available and that charge rate stretches the reasonable C-rate that chemistries with good energy density are capable of.

I would love to see honest analysis of the issue from someone at Rivian (or another company) - otherwise it just strikes to me of being a stat-line that the PR people can point to and people get excited over - "bigger = better".
If the only reason were that the competition can say:

“Charge your car from empty to 80% in less than 20 minutes versus 30 minutes on the Rivian.”

I think this would matter a lot as the EV space gets more and more competitive. In 2026, the mid size suv market is going to be crowded. Hyundai/Kia, Ford, GM, VW, Scout, Jeep, Tesla, Toyota(?)
 

SeaGeo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brice
Joined
Jan 12, 2021
Threads
50
Messages
5,673
Reaction score
10,212
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
Xc60 T8
Occupation
Engineer
Agree with all your reasoning. I at first thought about the Ioniq 5 because I have a few thousand miles on mine now but that would be a better comparison for R3 probably.

Then I looked up the EV9 and that claims 10-80 in 24 min, and the pack there is ~100 kWh. So your math checks out. Of course the EV9 has similar battery voltage to the R1 so a true 800V class car could probably swing 20 minutes.
The EV9 doesn't charge at a raw speed requiring 800v. The secret sauce they have is being able to push their cells really hard very deep into the pack.
 

KootenayEV

Well-Known Member
First Name
Andrew
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Threads
28
Messages
614
Reaction score
589
Location
Nelson, BC
Vehicles
R1T, Tesla Model 3
Occupation
Environmental Engineer
If the only reason were that the competition can say:

“Charge your car from empty to 80% in less than 20 minutes versus 30 minutes on the Rivian.”

I think this would matter a lot as the EV space gets more and more competitive. In 2026, the mid size suv market is going to be crowded. Hyundai/Kia, Ford, GM, VW, Scout, Jeep, Tesla, Toyota(?)
That isn't related to 800v vs 400v, that is related to one or more combination of:
- thermal performance of the pack (ie how much heat can be removed per unit time)
- cells that are optimized for power rather than energy
- a willingness of the company to push the cells hotter
Sponsored

 
 








Top