Canceled my R1S order :-(

[docwhiz]

Your experience with the Kia telluride is in line with almost every auto magazine, rating it as the top choice in three row SUV. It’s an amazing car, but most of us cannot wrap our heads around buying a Kia, something about brand perception. I think the EV9 would be an exceptional vehicle with its top trim having all the bells and whistles matching any luxury car. $75,000, GT version, horsepower not announced yet.

I cannot wrap my head around buying any ICE vehicle.
They're just stupid precision Rube Goldberg pollution machines which will go extinct.

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[alextakesphotos]

I cannot wrap my head around buying any ICE vehicle.
They're just stupid precision Rube Goldberg pollution machines which will go extinct.

Thats a bit of a stretch...

 

[seanocono]

Well, I finally got my test drive this weekend and after waiting a long 18 months I'm sad to say the R1S simply didn't live up to my (or my wife's) expectations.

Granted, this is from the perspective of having driven a BMW X7 for 4 years now (and currently) and a full size Range Rover for 5 years before that.

Here are some of the "low-lights":

Rivian gave me an address in San Jose to meet them for the test drive. I was fully expecting this to be Rivan's building, but instead it was a park across the street from a sketchy neighborhood with homeless people wandering around, and project cars parked on front lawns. After driving around in circles wondering how our GPS did us wrong, I finally saw a lone R1S on the side of the road. I hesitantly walked up to it and sure enough, there sits a young kid inside waiting for us. Like, do you think they could have been a little more specific in the e-mail that we'd be meeting some dude in a park in a sketchy neighborhood to go for a test drive....not a great start! Super unprofessional and kind of mind-boggling actually!

Outside walkaround:

- The walk-around of the vehicle was fine. I did notice a few minor panel gap issues but didn't bother pointing them out. It was green (not launch green) and the paint sparkles were pretty nice when the sun hit it. Can't deny it's nice looking from the outside!
- It had the 22" wheels, also nice. It had the Quad package.

Inside walkaround:

- The inside of the vehicle is where we were let down a bit. The way all the seats fold down with a loud *thunk* seems very unrefined for a vehicle this expensive and it's literally the very first thing the guy showed, as if that was a great "feature". "Thunk, thunk, thunk." ?? Every other luxury SUV in this class has electric controls to move the seats or at least a "soft open/close feel" rather than just thunking into place like a basic work pickup truck or something.
- The sound system was pretty decent and got loud but was also kind of unrefined with not much detail. It's too bad they pulled out the Meridian system (which was awesome in the Range Rover).
- No option for rear side window shades (not even manually operated), or a shade for the sunroof.
- Glass sunroof does not open at all...what's the point? We always crack our sunroof when parking outside on a hot day and it makes a huge difference without having to roll the windows down.
- Interior seats were reasonably comfortable front and rear, but my back started sweating immediately while sitting in the back seat in the "vegan leather" which was a surprisingly stiff and clammy vinyl. Back seat is not ventilated either. Putting an adult back there on a hot day with no window shades or sunroof shade seems like it would be a fairly torturous experience.
- No massage seat option.
- There is a display for the climate control in the back that the passenger cannot control (at least that's what the test drive guy said)...what's the point?
- Up front the seats were comfortable but even with the ventilation on (which was uncomfortably cold in the wrong places) my back was still sweating...maybe I was still just too hot from sitting in the back for only 5 minutes. At least your privates will stay cool. ?
- Overall the interior is nice and cleanly designed --the matte wood was nice, but it's still pretty sterile in a Tesla sort of way and also seemed "plasticky" everywhere -- definitely more of an entry level Volvo feel than a car costing $100k. Having come from both BMW and Range Rover, the overall interior quality is just not even on the same level -- this would be a serious downgrade from the X7 or a Range Rover where you are coddled in leather and soft-touch surfaces everywhere! The Sensafin artificial leather on the BMWs doesn't make your back sweat either and the ventilation cools you off evenly. And well, leather is there as an option if you want it.... I was really surprised here, the interior looks much better in pictures than in person where you definitely notice all the corners that were cut.
- No glove box, but hey, there's a sunglass holder under the passenger seat--I guess you could keep your paperwork there...

Test drive:

- Steering input and resistance seemed fine, similar to the BMW, but you could really tell the steering was electric and not "connected to the road" if that makes sense--now I understand why some of the car reviews call the steering "vague"--I don't really agree with that characterization but it's weird not feeling the road under you when you steer.
- I didn't really notice any weird noises as mentioned on the forums or in some reviews.
- It seemed peppy-ish driving around normally, but I felt like you really needed to lay into the gas pedal to give it some oomph, where there is then this latency of nothing happening and then bam, it's almost too much and the front end lifts up like you are about to take off in an airplane. I never really found a happy medium between peppy and sporty and didn't feel a ton of difference in throttle response in sport mode other than the suspension becoming unbearably stiff. I was very surprised how much you had to lay into it to get anything out of it--all of that (3.5s to 60) power seemed either on or off. Coming from BMW, the slightest modulation of the gas pedal with one toe gives you what you expect and you feel like you have all the power available to you at any time, especially in sport mode, which didn't seem to be the case with the Rivian. Granted, I didn't have nearly enough time with it and I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the reviews, so take this one with a grain of salt.
.- Yes, the regenerative braking thing is hard to get used to. It was set to minimum and seemed very aggressive. My wife commented that her foot would get tired from having to be on the accelerator all the time and not being able to coast in traffic when cruise is not on--I didn't think about that but it's a good point. I told her at least she'd save her foot by not having to use the brakes, haha.
- The blinker sound is kind of annoying and yet somehow also not really loud enough either.

Okay, so all of the above gripes aside, keep in mind this was all being extra-critical as in "is this the car we're going to sell the X7 for?" I was literally half-overlooking all of the above until...

The absolute deal-breaker was simply that it rides like a 90's pickup truck on the freeway, bouncing up and down and side to side and front to back. My wife was in the back and immediately said "is it as bumpy up there as it is back here?" Yep, it was. Not only could you feel every single bump in the road but it also had that feeling where after you hit a bump you can't tell if you are still hitting bumps or if it's still bouncing up and down from the first bump. Hands down, absolutely atrocious, unforgivable ride quality for a vehicle this expensive! I asked the guy if it had received the latest update and he said it did not...I have a hard time seeing how a "software update" could fix a suspension that badly dialed in, or how their engineers would even let that thing out of the factory to begin with! Granted, California freeways are tough test, they are pretty atrocious as well, but our neighbor's Subaru Outback rides better than the R1S!

As spec'd with the Max battery pack and a few accessories, I was happily prepared to spend nearly $108,000 on this vehicle sight unseen myself.... Thank god we saw it and drove it in person, because for equal or less money we can get a brand new fully loaded X7 with every option ticked, or another Range Rover, or a Porsche Cayenne, etc. Those 3 vehicles at the same price are literally all in another stratosphere from fit and finish and refinement perspective than this vehicle.

Overall, it seemed like it would be a great vehicle for an adventurous outdoorsy person in their early 30's splurging on their first "nice" car, but I have a hard time seeing how that person is also going to happily spend upwards of $100k on this thing!?

Hopefully this isn't a knock to the thousands of people here who love theirs, it simply just wasn't for us. My advice to anyone waiting for one is if you haven't driven it, be sure to schedule a test drive before pulling the trigger!

These rushed test drives are terrible barometers to measure a $100K purchase. The interaction with the sales associate / Rivian guide is mostly awkward, and, as you said in your review, you hardly have any time to test the vehicle’s capabilities.

If you really want to give the R1S an honest assessment, you should rent one on Turo, or Enterprise Exotics, for at least a weekend to see how it fits in your daily life. There are no doubt several options available in San Jose.

 

[docwhiz]

Thats a bit of a stretch...

Why??

 

[Milermore]

I cannot wrap my head around buying any ICE vehicle.
They're just stupid precision Rube Goldberg pollution machines which will go extinct.

I agree, just not sure what the timeline is going to be.

 

[strangelove]

Ride quality is still my biggest beef, even after the update. I generally like the S still, enough that I plan to keep it until Rivian does an eventual (hopeful) update to it in a future model year, which I have fingers crossed will squarely target ride quality for improvement. If they do that, I’ll buy Rivian for the foreseeable future. But the clock is ticking on my patience.

 

[alextakesphotos]

Why??

Have you never driven a sports car? IDK about you but when I drive mine I love it just as much as my R1S. Id buy another one in a heartbeat!

 

[Dark-Fx]

Have you never driven a sports car? IDK about you but when I drive mine I love it just as much as my R1S. Id buy another one in a heartbeat!

I'm really quite curious how these are to drive, but I'd never spend that much on a single car: https://everrati.com/works/porsche-911-964/

 

[docwhiz]

Have you never driven a sports car? IDK about you but when I drive mine I love it just as much as my R1S. Id buy another one in a heartbeat!

I had a Porsche 911 for about 5 years. Loved it. Good power and handling but when I think back, it was always finicky and the handling suffered from all the weight behind the rear axle.
My favorite drive in the 911 was up Mt. Rose from Reno to Lake Tahoe. This is a steep winding road. Loved the way the Porsche handled the curves and grade. However, my Tesla Model S is so much better. More power, better handling and maintenance free.
I would never buy another ICE vehicle. They are just too complicated, expensive to maintain and polluting.

 

[Yossarian]

Your experience with the Kia telluride is in line with almost every auto magazine, rating it as the top choice in three row SUV. It’s an amazing car, but most of us cannot wrap our heads around buying a Kia, something about brand perception. I think the EV9 would be an exceptional vehicle with its top trim having all the bells and whistles matching any luxury car. $75,000, GT version, horsepower not announced yet.

The perception about Kia is understandable given the brand's less than stellar past offerings and their abysmal dealer network. I'd argue that folks are doing themselves a disservice in not considering Kia however, at least on a selective basis. There's a number of very valid reasons that as you point out, the auto publications and CR (it has been that publication's top pick for mid-size SUVs for several years running) are so positively impressed by the Telluride.

The design of the Tellride is quite thoughtful and its build quality very high. The materials that Kia uses in the interior are much higher quality than usually found in mid-priced vehicles and indeed, come close to luxury levels. I'm a long-time Volvo owner, a marque that may fall slightly short of the true luxury level, but is at least in the premium category. IMO, the Telluride is very close to what I was accustomed to in Volvos. I will say however that the Telluride seating, while comfortable, falls quite a bit short of Volvo level, (admitedly world-class) and the Kia's sound system is not nearly in the same league as the Dynaudio that was in my last XC-90.

As to the EV9, while it at first seemed that Kia was positioning it to be their BEV Telluride, as we've learned more, that increasingly appears not to be the case. If in fact, that was Kia's goal, it would seem from the reviews I've seen so far, that they are falling quite short. I think Kia/Hyundai are quite capable companies in the EV space however, and I'm sure that the EV9 will be a more than decent electric SUV. That said, if the EV9 isn't even at the Telluride level, it certainly will not be competion for the R1S even for those who never take their SUV's off of paved roads.

Again IMO, folks looking for a high quality, but [slightly] less expensive, and significantly less capable mid-size SUV, should consider the EV9 as an alternative to the R1S. There's also the terrible Kia dealer network to consider, though that may be partically offset if EV9 build quality is at the Telluride level.

I'm comfortable with replacing my Telluride with an R1S however, particularly now that Rivian has worked out many of their earlier production and supply chain issues. It also helps that we're looking at having a much more robust charging network in the near future, which should take a lot of the anxiety out of our annual trip from PA to the mountain west. The two Rivian service centers that will open nearby fairly soon, thus rendering the six-hour round trip to Brooklyn moot, are also big plusses.

 

[Count Orlok]

The Countess in all her indefatigable acumen asked The Count to point out to the OP that it is really good he canceled his order. I mean, being subjected to the sight of homeless people and general lower-middle class neighborhoods is a hardship the OP best avoid. As the Countess notes, the OP does not sound like he would survive slumming at walmart charging stations where they don't even sell a decent caviar.

 

[tjp74]

They are just too complicated, expensive to maintain and polluting.

EV Enthuasist since 2010, owned several (leaf, I3, Sour EV etc) and currently R1S.
As much as I am an EV Enthuasists, I can't let go of my ICE root.. the vibration and sound. I used to love to hear the exahust brake sound when used to pull a 36ft travel trailer down the mountain path with my Ram 2500 with 6.7 Cumming Diesel or my current 2019 AMG C43 convertible (biturbo AMG enhanced V6) with an optional performance exhaust system. In sport+ mode with a pedal shift... oh boy... racing to redline then rev matching downshift, angry growls, crackles and pops... I can only imagine how this exprience will be enhanced with a true AMG handcrafted biturbo V8 if I bought a C63 instead. As long as I am breathing, I will hold on to an ICE car to complement our EV in the household.

 

[EVfanboy]

EV Enthuasist since 2010, owned several (leaf, I3, Sour EV etc) and currently R1S.
As much as I am an EV Enthuasists, I can't let go of my ICE root.. the vibration and sound. I used to love to hear the exahust brake sound when used to pull a 36ft travel trailer down the mountain path with my Ram 2500 with 6.7 Cumming Diesel or my current 2019 AMG C43 convertible (biturbo AMG enhanced V6) with an optional performance exhaust system. In sport+ mode with a pedal shift... oh boy... racing to redline then rev matching downshift, angry growls, crackles and pops... I can only imagine how this exprience will be enhanced with a true AMG handcrafted biturbo V8 if I bought a C63 instead. As long as I am breathing, I will hold on to an ICE car to complement our EV in the household.

How would you compare the ride of the R1S? Harsh? Sporty? Tolerable?

 

[rlawsoncrew]

Well, I finally got my test drive this weekend and after waiting a long 18 months I'm sad to say the R1S simply didn't live up to my (or my wife's) expectations.

Granted, this is from the perspective of having driven a BMW X7 for 4 years now (and currently) and a full size Range Rover for 5 years before that.

Here are some of the "low-lights":

Rivian gave me an address in San Jose to meet them for the test drive. I was fully expecting this to be Rivan's building, but instead it was a park across the street from a sketchy neighborhood with homeless people wandering around, and project cars parked on front lawns. After driving around in circles wondering how our GPS did us wrong, I finally saw a lone R1S on the side of the road. I hesitantly walked up to it and sure enough, there sits a young kid inside waiting for us. Like, do you think they could have been a little more specific in the e-mail that we'd be meeting some dude in a park in a sketchy neighborhood to go for a test drive....not a great start! Super unprofessional and kind of mind-boggling actually!

Outside walkaround:

- The walk-around of the vehicle was fine. I did notice a few minor panel gap issues but didn't bother pointing them out. It was green (not launch green) and the paint sparkles were pretty nice when the sun hit it. Can't deny it's nice looking from the outside!
- It had the 22" wheels, also nice. It had the Quad package.

Inside walkaround:

- The inside of the vehicle is where we were let down a bit. The way all the seats fold down with a loud *thunk* seems very unrefined for a vehicle this expensive and it's literally the very first thing the guy showed, as if that was a great "feature". "Thunk, thunk, thunk." ?? Every other luxury SUV in this class has electric controls to move the seats or at least a "soft open/close feel" rather than just thunking into place like a basic work pickup truck or something.
- The sound system was pretty decent and got loud but was also kind of unrefined with not much detail. It's too bad they pulled out the Meridian system (which was awesome in the Range Rover).
- No option for rear side window shades (not even manually operated), or a shade for the sunroof.
- Glass sunroof does not open at all...what's the point? We always crack our sunroof when parking outside on a hot day and it makes a huge difference without having to roll the windows down.
- Interior seats were reasonably comfortable front and rear, but my back started sweating immediately while sitting in the back seat in the "vegan leather" which was a surprisingly stiff and clammy vinyl. Back seat is not ventilated either. Putting an adult back there on a hot day with no window shades or sunroof shade seems like it would be a fairly torturous experience.
- No massage seat option.
- There is a display for the climate control in the back that the passenger cannot control (at least that's what the test drive guy said)...what's the point?
- Up front the seats were comfortable but even with the ventilation on (which was uncomfortably cold in the wrong places) my back was still sweating...maybe I was still just too hot from sitting in the back for only 5 minutes. At least your privates will stay cool. ?
- Overall the interior is nice and cleanly designed --the matte wood was nice, but it's still pretty sterile in a Tesla sort of way and also seemed "plasticky" everywhere -- definitely more of an entry level Volvo feel than a car costing $100k. Having come from both BMW and Range Rover, the overall interior quality is just not even on the same level -- this would be a serious downgrade from the X7 or a Range Rover where you are coddled in leather and soft-touch surfaces everywhere! The Sensafin artificial leather on the BMWs doesn't make your back sweat either and the ventilation cools you off evenly. And well, leather is there as an option if you want it.... I was really surprised here, the interior looks much better in pictures than in person where you definitely notice all the corners that were cut.
- No glove box, but hey, there's a sunglass holder under the passenger seat--I guess you could keep your paperwork there...

Test drive:

- Steering input and resistance seemed fine, similar to the BMW, but you could really tell the steering was electric and not "connected to the road" if that makes sense--now I understand why some of the car reviews call the steering "vague"--I don't really agree with that characterization but it's weird not feeling the road under you when you steer.
- I didn't really notice any weird noises as mentioned on the forums or in some reviews.
- It seemed peppy-ish driving around normally, but I felt like you really needed to lay into the gas pedal to give it some oomph, where there is then this latency of nothing happening and then bam, it's almost too much and the front end lifts up like you are about to take off in an airplane. I never really found a happy medium between peppy and sporty and didn't feel a ton of difference in throttle response in sport mode other than the suspension becoming unbearably stiff. I was very surprised how much you had to lay into it to get anything out of it--all of that (3.5s to 60) power seemed either on or off. Coming from BMW, the slightest modulation of the gas pedal with one toe gives you what you expect and you feel like you have all the power available to you at any time, especially in sport mode, which didn't seem to be the case with the Rivian. Granted, I didn't have nearly enough time with it and I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the reviews, so take this one with a grain of salt.
.- Yes, the regenerative braking thing is hard to get used to. It was set to minimum and seemed very aggressive. My wife commented that her foot would get tired from having to be on the accelerator all the time and not being able to coast in traffic when cruise is not on--I didn't think about that but it's a good point. I told her at least she'd save her foot by not having to use the brakes, haha.
- The blinker sound is kind of annoying and yet somehow also not really loud enough either.

Okay, so all of the above gripes aside, keep in mind this was all being extra-critical as in "is this the car we're going to sell the X7 for?" I was literally half-overlooking all of the above until...

The absolute deal-breaker was simply that it rides like a 90's pickup truck on the freeway, bouncing up and down and side to side and front to back. My wife was in the back and immediately said "is it as bumpy up there as it is back here?" Yep, it was. Not only could you feel every single bump in the road but it also had that feeling where after you hit a bump you can't tell if you are still hitting bumps or if it's still bouncing up and down from the first bump. Hands down, absolutely atrocious, unforgivable ride quality for a vehicle this expensive! I asked the guy if it had received the latest update and he said it did not...I have a hard time seeing how a "software update" could fix a suspension that badly dialed in, or how their engineers would even let that thing out of the factory to begin with! Granted, California freeways are tough test, they are pretty atrocious as well, but our neighbor's Subaru Outback rides better than the R1S!

As spec'd with the Max battery pack and a few accessories, I was happily prepared to spend nearly $108,000 on this vehicle sight unseen myself.... Thank god we saw it and drove it in person, because for equal or less money we can get a brand new fully loaded X7 with every option ticked, or another Range Rover, or a Porsche Cayenne, etc. Those 3 vehicles at the same price are literally all in another stratosphere from fit and finish and refinement perspective than this vehicle.

Overall, it seemed like it would be a great vehicle for an adventurous outdoorsy person in their early 30's splurging on their first "nice" car, but I have a hard time seeing how that person is also going to happily spend upwards of $100k on this thing!?

Hopefully this isn't a knock to the thousands of people here who love theirs, it simply just wasn't for us. My advice to anyone waiting for one is if you haven't driven it, be sure to schedule a test drive before pulling the trigger!

So, I agree on several points. The sunroof was a headscratcher to our whole family. If you can't open it, all it does is let a WHOLE LOT of heat in. I purchased it at the lower pre-order price of $79,000 and I love the car. The car is a lot of fun to drive and with gas prices as high as they are I am just about making my car payment on the savings. I have been doing about 4,000 miles per month.

There is the one issue which may ultimately be a deal killer for me. We have some small issues with the car right now that need to be fixed. I just got off of the phone with them yesterday. They informed me that their first available appointment for service was Jan 5, 2 and a half months?!?! I'm not going to live with that kind of wait if this thing has more problems. I will mention that they did inform me that they are opening a new service center in Sparks, Nevada. 3 hours away...

 

[lefkonj]

I read through the original post and wanted to share a few observations of my own:

1. When we took a test drive it was at a hotel halfway between our house and the service center. It was fine and allowed for local roads and some highways.
2. The original setup was with the highest suspension setting. Had to make a few changes to get it more 'normal' and then it was better
3. I wish the test drive educated people as to all of those settings, because driving the R1S with the All-Purpose High setting is not great at all. While necessary at times, never drive that way for long.
4. Features and functions that are missing are well documented and we shouldn't be shocked when massaging seats or CarPlay aren't available. This has been beaten out on the forums so it is well known.

If I loved my BMW X7 or Rover I wouldn't be surprised the Rivian isn't for you.

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