EV Tax Penalty

[JayinNJ]

I just renewed my Oklahoma State state license plates, and now there’s a new $400 EV tax that owners of electric vehicles must pay in addition to the usual registration fee every time they renew their license plates.
I know I did not vote for this.

I just find it hypocritical for states to be simultaneously providing incentives such as no sales tax and tax credits for you to buy an EV and then also charge extra for registration for missed taxes.

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[SRO]

So your argument is "Because X, why not Y"? My power comes from 100% renewable sources, and Rivian is doing the same whenever I stop at a RAN station, so the vast majority of the energy I use for propulsion is from renewable sources.

Some people think the renewable sources thing is just a greenwashing scam but I don't. If those programs didn't exist, there wouldn't be as much encouragement to build the renewables infrastructure. I plan on putting solar in at our next house that will regularly exceed the amount of energy we use.

Anyway, this doesn't need to turn into another one of those threads, so I'm going to stop responding to continued comments here. If you want to take it to a particular thread I will do so.

Good move. I figured that with my solar (all I could fit was 38 panels) it costs me $5 a month to charge my Rivian in the summer and $50 a month in the winter. However I only average 680 miles a month.

 

[NY_Rob]

You make an excellent point. I don’t plan on willingly giving my precise location data to the government. They probably already have it from my mobile phone though.

Don't forget.. our Rivian's have always connected LTE service.. .so they could always track that too if you turn your phone off.
See what I learned by watching Dateline ?

 

[PappaBolt]

Don't forget.. our Rivian's have always connected LTE service.. .so they could always track that too if you turn your phone off.
See what I learned by watching Dateline ?

If you turn off precise location sharing you loose important features like navigation and adas. You have to share to play. It didn’t have to be this way.

 

[Inthedmv]

I think this sums it up...

https://jalopnik.com/conservative-states-are-piling-new-taxes-on-evs-1850752760

 

[EricR]

Offsets the lack of gas tax revenue. Multiple states are doing this due to perceived reduction in revenue from ICE consumption.

But there is limited transparency on how the amount is set. Let’s use a hypothetical example:

State tax on a gallon of gas = 0.52

$400 EV equivalent / 0.52 = ~769 gallons annual consumption

average ICE fill up : 18 gallons

fill ups per year: ~42

YMMV

It obviously varies widely based on consumption. A flat tax that disregards usage is “regressive” and favors the government coffers. I expect politicians will find a way to make it “progressive” based on income.

Perhaps more progressive would be a usage tax based on miles driven rather than income. Hard to measure usage in-state vs. out-of-state mileage, I suppose. Doing either adds some layers of administration.

 

[EricR]

Yes, in WA it is a reasonable amount: With a gas tax of ~$0.50/gal, that equates to about 300 gallons of gas, or 5k/year of driving for the 4Runner I replaced with my R1T. I'm actually paying less than I did in gas taxes. And that's a good thing, because even if it's only a few hundred dollars that makes people feel good about deciding on an EV - the state spends FAR more than that trying to incentivize EV adoption in other ways, so this is a bargain from the state's point of view. And since EVs are more expensive, the state's 10%+ tax on motor vehicles ensures the state will make considerably more money from an EV sale.

(How things like roads and infrastructure are funded in our state is an entirely separate issue - long-term funding of ALL state services is dysfunctional here because we're not allowed an income tax and because a lot of funding is historically tied to unstable non-sustainable sources like timber sales and gas taxes.)

Using this same math in OK, a fee of $400/year with a gas tax of $0.19/gal means that an EV owner will be paying as much as someone who uses 2000 gal/year (~=32k miles of driving in my 4Runner). Which means that EVs will proportionately pay a substantially larger amount than ICE owners.

This is a disincentive to buying an EV in OK, and just the fact that this fee exists will discourage some number of people from considering an EV. A gas tax is hidden in the price of gas, and paid dollar by dollar over a period of a year, so no one really considers the amount of tax - they only worry about the price of gas. But a separate and fairly large fee to be paid all at once every year is something people try to avoid, even if it totals to the same amount.

If the whole purpose of a tax was just to charge in proportion to the amount of wear and tear to contribute to the roads, a gas tax is a poor way of doing that. And a flat fee is even worse. But tax policy is also used to influence behavior, hence "sin taxes" and credits for buying and owning a home, credits for being married and having kids, etc. If you have a policy that makes EV owners responsible for a larger share of road maintenance, that WILL act to slow down EV adoption. How much, I don't know.

Oklahoma = oil country = disincentives for EV purchases
Someone did the math. A 25mpg equivalent car would have to drive 50k miles.

 

[Autolycus]

Georgia has doubled-down on EV taxes. In addition to the $200+/year registration fee that offsets way more than I would pay in motor fuel taxes -- which were waived statewide for a chunk of last year, meaning literally all road funding came from the general fund -- they're going to add a sales tax on EV charging fees. Regardless of whether there's merit to having EV owners contribute to road funds, these taxes in Georgia were absolutely passed with the intention to be punitive toward liberal EV drivers.

FWIW, in Georgia, less than half of road expenses come from the motor fuel tax. Most of it comes from general funds, federal grants, and local taxes (property and sales).

 

[ChiefBushWookie]

I just renewed my Oklahoma State state license plates, and now there’s a new $400 EV tax that owners of electric vehicles must pay in addition to the usual registration fee every time they renew their license plates.
I know I did not vote for this.

NC currently charges $140, which I am willing to pay. I agree that $400 is way too steep.

 

[PappaBolt]

Perhaps more progressive would be a usage tax based on miles driven rather than income. Hard to measure usage in-state vs. out-of-state mileage, I suppose. Doing either adds some layers of administration.

100% agree a mileage based tax the fairest way (along with weight of vehicle).

Politicians are pushing “tax the rich” agenda where I suspect they will eventually add a rate ladder to EV taxes based on income.

Here’s a recent income tax example in MA where there is additional tax (4%) on top of the regular rate for income in excess of $1M. It’s even called the “Fair Share Amendment”.

https://massbudget.org/fairshare/

 

[Supratachophobia]

I just renewed my Oklahoma State state license plates, and now there’s a new $400 EV tax that owners of electric vehicles must pay in addition to the usual registration fee every time they renew their license plates.
I know I did not vote for this.

$200 in Ohio, we feel you.

 

[Techhawk]

Missouri is $90 for EV per year. With our $0.245 gas tax driving 10k miles/year is $120. So pretty fair!

 

[SeaGeo]

They are but not fairly, they need to remove the gas tax and add the same amount to all vehicle registrations. Alternatively device a charge per mile on registration for EVs so you pay per use like ICE. I’m all for paying for road maintenance but make it fair. That $400 is like driving a Jeep Grand Cherokee at 20 mpg 42k a year, that is 2.4 times the average in Oklahoma of 17.7k a year. Should be closer to $200.

Looks like they are trying to make local EVs pay for out of state registrations that use the roads but do not consume fuel.

State DOT's and the FHWA have been looking at this for years, even without EVs. Pruises have been running around basically skipping the gas tax for years.

My only complaint about these is they should really be restructured holistically - to eliminate gas taxes and EV fees and replace them with a mileage tax indexed to the weight of the vehicle. Couple that with carbon and particulate emission taxes on all energy.

Externalities need to be priced in across the board.

Conceptually this is a good idea but...

Washington State is trying to move to monitoring your vehicle and charging you for every mile you drive. So be happy with a flat tax for now.

They've been studying it, but they have a lot of misgivings about it, as does the populace... a mileage based tax isn't particularly popular for conservatives or liberals...

Perhaps more progressive would be a usage tax based on miles driven rather than income. Hard to measure usage in-state vs. out-of-state mileage, I suppose. Doing either adds some layers of administration.

100% agree a mileage based tax the fairest way (along with weight of vehicle).

Politicians are pushing “tax the rich” agenda where I suspect they will eventually add a rate ladder to EV taxes based on income.

Here’s a recent income tax example in MA where there is additional tax (4%) on top of the regular rate for income in excess of $1M. It’s even called the “Fair Share Amendment”.

https://massbudget.org/fairshare/

ok ok, I'll finally get to the point...

Mileage based taxes have some pretty obvious drawbacks (like the feeling that uncle same is tracking you), but they are also regressive. Speaking to the concerns that I know WSDOT has been evaluating, one of the larger ones is that mileage based taxes are not generally equitable, and the gas tax isn't either. People who are live near where they work are generally more wealthy. The average working in a store in say.... the core of Seattle or Bellevue likely has to commute in to that job from a suburb, and also likely drives an older vehicle that's less fuel efficiency than a newer comparable vehicle (though also probably lighter). Meanwhile people who can afford to housing in the core of a city also often don't drive as much.

Interestingly, there is a general angst over mileage taxes from people who live in more rural areas, since their travel distances are further (typically). My understanding is that overall they generally drive about the same amount of miles per year of people in more urban and suburban environments, they just do more "per trip".

My point is, it's more complicated than it seems, particularly if you're concerned about what is reasonably equitable. The States and Government (at least WSDOT) are putting a decent amount of work into trying to figure out the best way to handle this that's *also* palatable to the population. So if a mileage based tax isn't equitable, and a gas tax is clearly inefficient, what's the best approach for a State to take that they can implement?

Don't forget, as a society we've grown so anti-tax that the national gas tax was raise was in 1993. It's not indexed to anything. It's been $0.184/gallon since 1993. When @Dark-Fx asks how your roads are, the answer likely varies a lot based on how much work your State has done to offset this budget shortfall. People want great infrastructure, but they don't want to pay for it. So a lot of this is trying to find out what ways the States can implement a tax to help fund infrastructure.

 

[ads75]

There's also this obscure section. Pennsylvania has an alternate fuels tax in section 9004(D) - I believe this is indicating that if you use a public charger, the alternate fuels tax must be paid by the network, which you are obviously paying for in the end. So effectively, you are double taxed?? I'm not good with legalese, perhaps I'm wrong....

(G) RESIDENTIAL EXEMPTION FROM ALTERNATIVE FUELS TAX.-- ELECTRIC VEHICLES SUBJECT TO THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE ROAD USER CHARGE UNDER SUBSECTION (A) ARE EXEMPT FROM THE TAX IMPOSED UNDER SECTION 9004(D) (RELATING TO IMPOSITION OF TAX, EXEMPTIONS AND DEDUCTIONS) ONLY IF THE ELECTRICITY IS DERIVED FROM THE LEGAL RESIDENCE OF THE OWNER OR REGISTRANT.

If we are talking about double taxing in Pennsylvania, lets address the Pennsylvania Turnpike. I am already paying for the upkeep on that road via tolls. They shouldn't (but probably will) keep the tolls and then tax on someones mileage. But I guess they already do that with gas/diesels and the gas road tax.

 

[Zoidz]

If we are talking about double taxing in Pennsylvania, lets address the Pennsylvania Turnpike. I am already paying for the upkeep on that road via tolls. They shouldn't (but probably will) keep the tolls and then tax on someones mileage. But I guess they already do that with gas/diesels and the gas road tax.

Now ya did it, ya got me started on PennDOT and the Turnpike Commission, lol. Talk about clueless bureacrats in Harrisburg supported by spineless politicians.

You may know some of these facts:

They steal from the Motor License Fund and Turpike Tolls to pay for the State Police.

"Over the past six years, $4.25 billion has been diverted from the Motor License Fund to repair roads and bridges, and used to fund Pennsylvania State Police, the state auditor general announced."

“Safety on public highways” is an allowable Motor License Fund expense, according to the state constitution. The fiscal year 2016-17 budget diverts about $802 million in Motor License Fund money to state police, about 67% of the agency's $1.2-billion budget. About $257 million comes from the general fund."

Incredible Turnpike rate increases while DECREASING expenses by getting rid of toll booth collector labor. They are expanding the entire road to 6 lanes wide, while toll revenue is dropping like a rock because of the increases. Trucks are not using the turnpike as much and instead driving longer routes on I-80, I-78, etc.

"In 2004, the cost to travel the turnpike from the Ohio border to the New Jersey line was just over $21. Today, the same trip costs $47 — for E-ZPass users. For other drivers, the cost is $95.30, paid via Toll-by-Plate — a machine that scans license plates and sends a bill."

"Fares have increased each of the past 13 years and will continue to rise until 2050. The most recent 5% increase will take effect in January. "

"While experts agree the constantly increasing tolls are worrisome, they are equally troubled by the amount of debt the Turnpike Commission has incurred over the past decade. Most of it stems from $450 million yearly payments to the state Department of Transportation, which started in 2007 under Act 44."

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