IRS Transition rule guidance changed

[JerseyGreens]

Sorry, I fired them all

Thank you, Mayor!!

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[DuoRivians]

At least a couple people claim they did since they were adamant they didn't qualify anymore under previous guidance. I tried my best to convince them they were and the IRS was ultimately going to either revise the guidance or issue new guidance for next tax year, but horses and water don't mix.

You tried. Their loss!

 

[Autolycus]

It's almost as if the words of the US Code actually matter sometimes... The IRS really only had two obvious options with the transition rule, which is here:

(l) TRANSITION RULE.—Solely for purposes of the application
of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that—
(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the date of enact- ment of this Act, purchased, or entered into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date of enactment of this Act), and
(2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the date of enactment of this Act,
such taxpayer may elect (at such time, and in such form and manner, as the Secretary of the Treasury, or the Secretary’s dele- gate, may prescribe) to treat such vehicle as having been placed in service on the day before the date of enactment of this Act.

They either do what they are now advising, which is to file for the credit on your 2022 taxes no matter when you get the vehicle but always with 8/15/2022 as the "in service" date or allow you to file for a credit in a later tax year when you receive the vehicle but also with an "in service" date of 8/15/2022.

It's weird thinking about filing an amended return for 2022 based on something that occurs in 2023 or 2024, but there's precedent for it. I've mentioned before that I personally did something similar for the 2009 First Time Homebuyer Credit. Bought our first house in July 2009 and very properly and legally filed an amended 2008 return to get the credit and refund immediately instead of waiting until filing my 2009 return.

 

[McMoo]

Where are all of those CPAs that were acting like ambulance chasers arguing with me...??

Still here. Rivian sending out an email doesn’t mean the IRS will accept the agreement as a written binding contract, although I can’t believe they would send it out to everyone without some insight that the IRS will accept it so let’s hope that’s the case.

The two requirements are still relevant
1. Contract is enforceable under state law
2. Contract doesn’t limit damages to a specified amount (damages limited to more than 5% of the contract price are deemed to not limit damages)

As mentioned before, the Rivian agreement doesn’t appear to limit damages, they could possibly force someone to buy the vehicle, although $100 non refundable deposit isn’t a good fact. Just because the IRS issues a refund or accepts the return that was filed doesn’t mean there couldn’t be an adjustment later on.

 

[JerseyGreens]

^^^^ @Dark-Fx - get him outta here!! ^^^^

 

[Dark-Fx]

Still here. Rivian sending out an email doesn’t mean the IRS will accept the agreement as a written binding contract, although I can’t believe they would send it out to everyone without some insight that the IRS will accept it so let’s hope that’s the case.

All it means is someone in Rivian's legal department is reading my posts here. Scary.

Edit: maybe they'll make an example out of me for everyone's sake and force me to buy an R1S. C'mon Rivian, I'm waiting.

 

[jollyroger]

Where can we find out if this contract was good enough in the state we live in? I’m assuming since Rivian is headquartered in Irvine? It should be good enough for us Cali folk.

 

[McMoo]

^^^^ @Dark-Fx - get him outta here!! ^^^^

Would it make you feel better if I said I’m taking the credit myself? I know the potential risk though and the issue I have is some people think it’s a done deal because Rivian sent an email.

 

[JerseyGreens]

Would it make you feel better if I said I’m taking the credit myself? I know the potential risk though and the issue I have is some people think it’s a done deal because Rivian sent an email.

If we think of the total $ amount of tax credits for those of us that signed BPAs (with RIVN and other companies) it isn't that high on the totem pole for the IRS to investigate/audit. They have much bigger tax fraud issues to deal with then us.

Yes, it gives me great joy and comfort that you will also be filing for the credit.

 

[McMoo]

If we think of the total $ amount of tax credits for those of us that signed BPAs (with RIVN and other companies) it isn't that high on the totem pole for the IRS to investigate/audit. They have much bigger tax fraud issues to deal with then us.

Yes, it gives me great joy and comfort that you will also be filing for the credit.

I actually think the opposite. This could be an easy money grab. Not to give them ideas but y hey run a query of all 2022 returns with form 8936 and 8/15/22 as the in service date, deny all of those credits, and make people go to appeals or tax court. I wouldn’t think this administration would want to do that though due to the optics of disallowing EV credits.

 

[ERguy]

Yes I did. Ok I see what you are saying. Just print it out and sign it when filing. Got it, great!

Thk you for breaking it down!!

No... Whatever you do don't just sign it when filing. As stated in the email, you were supposed to print it out and sign it last summer then save a copy for your records.

If you sign it now, or any time after 8/16/22, it's a completely useless piece of paper because the binding contract (or any contract for that matter) isn't valid until signed by all parties.

If you didn't sign it last summer (I have no idea why anybody wouldn't have... Unless you hate money), you better make up a date before 8/16/22 when signing it.

In other words, if you didn't sign it before 8/16/22, you missed out on the tax credit. Your only chance now is lying and signing with a retroactive date and assuming the IRS won't know... Which is probably a safe assumption.

 

[jollyroger]

No... Whatever you do don't just sign it when filing. As stated in the email, you were supposed to print it out and sign it last summer then save a copy for your records.

If you sign it now, or any time after 8/16/22, it's a completely useless piece of paper. The email clearly stated you needed to sign it before the law was enacted.

If you didn't sign it last summer (I have no idea why anybody wouldn't have... Unless you hate money), you better make up a date before 8/16/22 when signing it.

I'm other words, if you didn't sign it before 8/16/22, you missed out on the tax credit. Your only chance now is lying and signing with a retroactive date.

The date was actually pre-populated from Rivian, mine says Aug 10th

 

[ERguy]

The date was actually pre-populated from Rivian, mine says Aug 10th

Correct. That's the date Rivian signed it.

Any contract is valid only once all parties have signed.

It doesn't matter when Rivian signs a contract if you don't sign it too. A preprinted date is only useful if the buyer actually signed it, which this person did not do.

 

[jollyroger]

Correct. That's the date Rivian signed it.

Any contract is valid only once all parties have signed.

It doesn't matter when Rivian signs a contract if you don't sign it too. A preprinted date is only useful if the buyer actually signed it, which this person did not do.

Right, there are two sections, the customer signature, which includes a pre-printed date, and the seller which also includes a date.

 

[Autolycus]

Any contract is valid only once all parties have signed.

meh... not really. Contracts are valid when one party makes an offer and another party accepts it as part of a meeting of the minds. That is usually verified by signatures, but plenty of enforceable contracts aren't ever written, let alone signed and counter-signed.

A signed contract is really really helpful for proving that a contract exists and to confirm the enforceable terms of that contract, but a contract can most certainly be valid without signatures from both parties.

Note: Some contracts have signature provisions that require signatures to be valid. Those are really just an expiration of the offer if a specific condition isn't met within a deadline.

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