Musk Forbes article.

[Donald Stanfield]

To my knowledge Tesla has never demonstrated or quantified that any driver autonomy products are safer than not using them. I've heard of some Xitter posts that are unverifiable and unsubstantiated.

I'd be happy to read any documentation of quantifiable safety benefits if it actually exists.

We've discussed this before. His source is "trust me bro".

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[Rivian Owner]

While I do believe the damage to Musk's image over the last few years is well deserved, I can't help but roll my eyes at these lawsuits. Does Tesla play fast and loose with marketing? Yes. Should they have avoided effectively pre-selling a feature without a release date? Yes. Could any person have easily determined Teslas DON'T drive themselves? Absolutely, within 30 seconds in a showroom or on a test drive.

This lawsuit like all the others is an indictment of the way Musk communicates, and perhaps he deserves the headache, but to me this is just lawyers looking for a big payday. Tesla has invested billions into this tech and I believe the entire industry is better for it. There is no scam here, just a really really hard technical problem and an overly optimistic blabbermouth CEO.

Yeah lying about your "future" products does harm to others. Elon has been less than honest about a lot of things, including his lie about taking Tesla private, which was nothing more than a manipulation of Tesla's stock price. Acting as though everyone does it and accepting it as "the way things works" only promotes dishonest business practices. Blaming lawyers for going after a "blabbermouth CEO" is exactly what people like Elon want, blame the cops for interrupting my con game.

Lots of people bought their Tesla and paid extra for self-driving long before it became apparent that this was all just a "boast" by a "blabbermouth CEO", after all it was a feature being sold, not just some press release. If lawyers don't get involved how do you propose to make Tesla owners whole ? There is a difference between a boast and a con.

As for self driving, it is easy to see that other companies have surpassed Tesla and delivered on their claims, so obviously the tech isn't the issue. Look at Waymo for an example. No scam here? We've seen it over and over again, Elon boasts about some future capability, gets people to buy into the dream, and then moves on after he has extracted his billions.

This is how we end up with thousands of people dying from Fentanyl overdoses while people like the Sacklers walk away with billions of dollars; blame the people who got duped by the lies. I believe you need to hold people at the top accountable for their actions otherwise there is no incentive to do the right thing.

 

[captainjp]

Elon has been less than honest about a lot of things, including his lie about taking Tesla private, which was nothing more than a manipulation of Tesla's stock price.

“Funding secured” - E.M.

 

[SwampNut]

“It’s okay to kill a few people so long as I don’t have to pay attention on my commute”- Swampnut

It's okay for people to kill tens of thousands of people as long as a robot doesn't kill a couple." - DonnieS

 

[Donald Stanfield]

It's okay for people to kill tens of thousands of people as long as a robot doesn't kill a couple." - DonnieS

Doesn’t make sense sorry. Try again. While your at it, provide PROOF that FSD saves lives.

 

[SwampNut]

Doesn’t make sense sorry. Try again. While your at it, provide PROOF that FSD saves lives.

Doesn't make sense sorry. Please quote where I ever said anything about FSD in this thread.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Doesn't make sense sorry. Please quote where I ever said anything about FSD in this thread.

Considering you were replying to a comment discussing FSD I assumed your reply was on topic. I guess I gave you too much credit.

 

[SwampNut]

Considering that I was replying to a post that was already off topic by comparing Musk to Theranos, I assumed you could catch up and understand a complex topic. Please quote where I was replying to a post about FSD.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Considering that I was replying to a post that was already off topic by comparing Musk to Theranos, I assumed you could catch up and understand a complex topic. Please quote where I was replying to a post about FSD.

Peak irony achieved.

 

[renderpaz]

Can you come up with other cases where customers spend thousands of dollars on a feature only for it to never materialize?

How is it not the greatest case of fraud the last decade? It started in 2016 or so and continued until just about a year ago or so when they moved the language to supervised full self driving.

Don't you think customers who paid for an UPCOMING feature don't deserve to be paid back?

They didn't just play it fast and loose with marketing but it was clearly a lie from the get go.

This wasn't a feature that could be demonstrated on a test drive as it was upcoming.

In 2018 when I bought a Model 3 Performance Tesla promised me enhanced autopilot in the near term that would automatically change lanes based on navigation, and eventually that the car could drive itself.

I didn't believe the second part but I believed the first part. That seemed perfectly doable.

In my 4 years with it did it ever really do either? No, not at all.

The Enhanced Autopilot was utterly worthless.
The short period of time at the end when FSD started to trickle out it took a lot of concentration to constantly keep it in check.

It cost me $8K and maybe delivered $2K worth of value at best.

With Rivian in 2022 I was promised hands free driving but they didn't deliver on that. So you could say that's fraud too but they didn't charge me anything for it.

In both cases I won't sue.

In Tesla's case I simply blame Elon for the entire fiasco so I won't buy another one till he's gone from Tesla or that he actually delivers on FSD.

In Rivians case I see it more as an OOPS we messed up.

I'll back you up in that from 2018 to 2022 FSD progress was awful. I've owned various Teslas from 2016 through today (though I only drive Rivians). They basically gave up on enhanced autopilot as they realized straddling highway assist tech and FSD tech didn't make sense. They spent years essentially rebuilding FSD to use what they call now "Tesla Vision". The progress made since 2022 has been impressive.

To my original point, "lying" in this legal context implies they knew they would not meet their promises. I believe this claim will be shown to be invalid. Every indication is that autonomy was priority #1 at Tesla - to the detriment of the company. No automaker has spent even a fraction as much as Tesla attempting to deliver autonomous driving. Progress on the technology has varied over the years, and I think at times of rapid progress (2018, now) Elon's claims become more frothy, and people get burned. Some of them won't buy Teslas anymore (you, me). Tesla paid its price. I restate my claim that this is just lawyers wanting a piece.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I'll back you up in that from 2018 to 2022 FSD progress was awful. I've owned various Teslas from 2016 through today (though I only drive Rivians). They basically gave up on enhanced autopilot as they realized straddling highway assist tech and FSD tech didn't make sense. They spent years essentially rebuilding FSD to use what they call now "Tesla Vision". The progress made since 2022 has been impressive.

To my original point, "lying" in this legal context implies they knew they would not meet their promises. I believe this claim will be shown to be invalid. Every indication is that autonomy was priority #1 at Tesla - to the detriment of the company. No automaker has spent even a fraction as much as Tesla attempting to deliver autonomous driving. Progress on the technology has varied over the years, and I think at times of rapid progress (2018, now) Elon's claims become more frothy, and people get burned. Some of them won't buy Teslas anymore (you, me). Tesla paid its price. I restate my claim that this is just lawyers wanting a piece.

Explain Waymo then. The issue isn't that Tesla tried really hard and no one got self-driving to work; the issue is the way towards self-driving was known, and Tesla didn't want to spend the money to do it.

 

[SwampNut]

Musk done nothing good, ever. Yes, I know, “he didn’t do it, his company did” applies only when it’s negative. Also for those with low reading comprehension, you all started the medical company comparison. Peak irony, some say.

 

[COdogman]

Musk done nothing good, ever. Yes, I know, “he didn’t do it, his company did” applies only when it’s negative. Also for those with low reading comprehension, you all started the medical company comparison. Peak irony, some say.

It may turn out to be that Neuralink is a good thing. Nevermind it’s competitors have been doing similar things for years, without all the lies and shady BS that Leon brings to the table with everything he does.


The Gruesome Story of How Neuralink’s Monkeys Actually Died
Elon Musk says no primates died as a result of Neuralink’s implants. A WIRED investigation now reveals the grisly specifics of their deaths as US authorities have been asked to investigate Musk’s claims.

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-pcrm-neuralink-monkey-deaths/

 

[Budman]

Musk done nothing good, ever. Yes, I know, “he didn’t do it, his company did” applies only when it’s negative. Also for those with low reading comprehension, you all started the medical company comparison. Peak irony, some say.

Medtronic, and maybe others have been offering implanted Nero stimulation therapies for years. Elon did not invent this type of treatment.

https://www.medtronic.com/en-us/hea..." OR @ontology_isa="Neurostimulation systems"

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Musk done nothing good, ever. Yes, I know, “he didn’t do it, his company did” applies only when it’s negative. Also for those with low reading comprehension, you all started the medical company comparison. Peak irony, some say.

What the fuck does this have to do with Elon knowingly lying about FSD and its shortcomings?

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