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mkhuffman

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I get in my EV and just “go.” 300+ miles with R2 or 400 miles with an iX3 will suit us just fine. We are an all-EV household having put a combined 130,000 miles across three EVs:

2021 Model 3 SR+ — 50,000 miles (sold 2024)
2023 Model Y — 47,106 miles currently (bought January 2023)
2024 Model 3 — 31,824 miles currently (bought June 2024)

I put 21,000 miles on my Model 3 in 2025 alone. I charge at home and Supercharge on road trips. The network has been ultra reliable since I bought my first EV in 2021. Even then, I still charge 90% of the time at home. I don’t have range anxiety because I get in my car, plug in my destination, and I know where my charging stops are along the way. It’s idiot proof, so why would I be anxious? It’s not rocket science. My breakdown for 21,000 miles worth of driving in my 3:

IMG_8771.webp
My BEV experience is not with a Tesla.

Even when the SC network was opened up to Ford, I had public charging issues. With the SC network, it was charger congestion.

On one stop there was line out into the parking lot. No way I was going to wait for two charging spaces to open up, so I had to use the EA charger on the other side of the parking lot, which was also congested and slow. That was the day I decided I had to get rid of my Mach-e. I just wanted to get home and ended up spending well over an hour just to get enough charge to make it. So horrible.

With the SC network in general I am stressed out about taking up two charging spaces or finding a space on the end so I don't have to take up two spaces. I have been lucky in my R1T and the stations have had spaces available without me hogging two spaces, but it still stresses me out as I navigate there.

I definitely plan my charging stops because if the Rivian Nav picks for me, it could pick a crappy EA or EVGO location. And I often don't like the route it picks. I like the shortest route but sometimes will take a slightly longer one if the amenities at the charging stop are better. Amenities matter when you have to stop for 40 minutes.

This is NOT what people have to do when traveling with a ICEV. Range anxiety is definitely real and definitely still exists.

I will say the longer range of my R1T has reduced range anxiety tremendously. I can now skip charging stops that I was forced to take in my Mach-e.

This is exactly why longer range matters. If I had twice the range I could eliminate ALL the public charging I have to do now. All of it. How amazing and stress free that would be.
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M3_R2

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There's no use paying for battery you'll never need so it's always a parameter the mfg's are forced to make decisions on - at least for the next 5+ years. Most people are not willing to pay the extra cost. It's a very inefficient way of increasing range.

Once we get 500+ mile range for the same price as an ICE equivalent, everything changes. Trucks and large SUV's have the size for a very large pack if you are willing to pay a lot for it but for everone else, energy density needs to increase.

The best solution now is to continue with DCFC rollouts and modification of existing infrastructure to accommodate all vehicle charge port locations.

Though with longer range EV's on the road that charge faster, DCFC's will become more profitable to run which should further increase build-out. It's coming, we're just not there yet. Even re-striping the stalls could help prevent taking up 2 of them.

In the meantime, if it's not a seamless experience due to DCFC location/orientation or that of your charge port, range/charging anxiety will remain a thing.

I've ruled out buying a BMW iX3 50 (at least for now) due to charge port location. It has great range but I still don't want the hassle of vetting my charging destinations for what I'm in store for. I could make it work but I'm not spending that much unless it's worry free.
 

sparked

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End of the day, it's more infrastructure anxiety than range anxiety.
Lack of infrastructure is causing range anxiety. Still the same end result. And charging deployment in the USA is slow and going to remain lower than demand for a while. So that means the US market has to go with bigger batteries and EREVs in the near term until charging is ubiquitious. Meanwhile China has 19 million charging stalls which seems unreal to me.
 
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Zorg

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Lack of infrastructure is causing range anxiety. Still the same end result. And charging deployment in the USA is slow and going to remain lower than demand for a while. So that means the US industry has to go with bigger batteries and EREVs in the near term until charging is ubiquitious. Meanwhile China has 19 million charging stalls which seems unreal to me.
Seems to me that charging anxiety should be alleviated quite a bit in next couple years between Ionna, Walmart and Tesla v4 chargers.

Did a road trip to Moab a couple years ago that sucked due to EA performance. I am going back this spring and there are 2 new Tesla SC, 2 Ionna stations and a couple Pilot Flying J stations on the same trip. Zero anxiety getting there.
 

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MaskedRacerX

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That said - BEVs don't operate like ICE vehicles and the advantages of a BEV can far outway that specific inconvenience since they:
  • Can be charged at home while you sleep
  • Charging at home is usually far less expensive than buying gas
  • Require far less in maintenance costs
  • Smoke most ICE vehicles in terms of technology/acceleration/torque
As we approach 5 years of owning a BEV (in addition to a PHEV) I'd also add:

Quiet operation
While maybe a bit more of a subjective perk, I love being able to drive quietly on the beach, through the neighborhood, in a parking garage, "starting" the vehicle without a bunch of noise, being able to sit, quietly in a pickup line at school

Idling in enclosed spaces
This is a nice benefit, for example, doing a pre-cool/heat in the garage with the door closed - and certainly for vehicles with V2*, being able to idle for hours, regardless of location, is a great perk

I'll put it this way, even without the "green value" of a BEV, I'd still consider them superior (outside of a few specific use cases) to ICE and that was a huge deal for me coming from a real "gearhead" sort of background. :)
 

sparked

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Seems to me that charging anxiety should be alleviated quite a bit in next couple years between Ionna, Walmart and Tesla v4 chargers.

Did a road trip to Moab a couple years ago that sucked due to EA performance. I am going back this spring and there are 2 new Tesla SC, 2 Ionna stations and a couple Pilot Flying J stations on the same trip. Zero anxiety getting there.
I'm talking about new buyers though who have zero experience. The barrier to convince those people are a lot higher. Especially without the push from the $7500 tax credit.

I'm technically a new EV buyer and have enough knowledge that I could probably go with a smaller battery. However, I still want the bigger battery as my first BEV. That's a hump that the US market will keep fighting until there are China level number of stalls.
 

Zorg

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I'm talking about new buyers though who have zero experience. The barrier to convince those people are a lot higher. Especially without the push from the $7500 tax credit.

I'm technically a new EV buyer and have enough knowledge that I could probably go with a smaller battery. However, I still want the bigger battery as my first BEV. That's a hump that the US market will keep fighting until there are China level number of stalls.
Makes sense. Also depends where one lives too. The iX3 range and fast charging sure hits a sweet spot though.
 

macb00kemdanno

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As we approach 5 years of owning a BEV (in addition to a PHEV) I'd also add:

Quiet operation
While maybe a bit more of a subjective perk, I love being able to drive quietly on the beach, through the neighborhood, in a parking garage, "starting" the vehicle without a bunch of noise, being able to sit, quietly in a pickup line at school

Idling in enclosed spaces
This is a nice benefit, for example, doing a pre-cool/heat in the garage with the door closed - and certainly for vehicles with V2*, being able to idle for hours, regardless of location, is a great perk

I'll put it this way, even without the "green value" of a BEV, I'd still consider them superior (outside of a few specific use cases) to ICE and that was a huge deal for me coming from a real "gearhead" sort of background. :)
I can't disagree with any of this. My only two downsides to EV ownership have been:

1) Vehicle registration. In NC, annual vehicle registration for a vehicle is $46.65. You have to pay an additional $214.50 for an EV. So that's $260 x two vehicles a year for us

2) Insurance. When we had a 2017 Audi A4 and a 2017 Subaru Outback, insurance was about $700 every six months. We now pay $1,445.64 every six months for a Model 3 and a Model Y. No infractions on our licenses or accidents.

This wipes out much of the gas savings that we reap with an EV.
 

mkhuffman

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Makes sense. Also depends where one lives too. The iX3 range and fast charging sure hits a sweet spot though.
Has BMW explained how the iX3 will handle 400V chargers? Does anyone know?

If it handles it like the Lucid Gravity does, all is good. If it handles it like the Lucid Air, not good. Not good at all. The Air charges at 50 kW on 400V chargers, which basically eliminates the entire Tesla network, except where they have V4s installed. Which are few.
 

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mkhuffman

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I'm talking about new buyers though who have zero experience. The barrier to convince those people are a lot higher. Especially without the push from the $7500 tax credit.

I'm technically a new EV buyer and have enough knowledge that I could probably go with a smaller battery. However, I still want the bigger battery as my first BEV. That's a hump that the US market will keep fighting until there are China level number of stalls.
Don't believe anything coming out of China. They lie about everything. Maybe they do have 19M chargers. I don't believe it. Never trust a habitual liar.

Definitely get the biggest battery you can get. I know I am biased due to my experience, but I have never heard anyone complain about having too much battery.

Keep in mind that when traveling you will charge 10% to 80% max, and then go on to the next stop. A bigger battery means you get more kWh added in that 10-80 window. And that is the window that matters when traveling.

Take 80% of the EPA range to get your highway range, and then take 70% of that to get your range between charger stops. Now you can see why bigger is better. :)
 

DuoRivian

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Has BMW explained how the iX3 will handle 400V chargers? Does anyone know?

If it handles it like the Lucid Gravity does, all is good. If it handles it like the Lucid Air, not good. Not good at all. The Air charges at 50 kW on 400V chargers, which basically eliminates the entire Tesla network, except where they have V4s installed. Which are few.
Well we will know very soon as customers get them in March in Europe. I would expect BMW manages this well but some will always look for the black cloud.
 

M3_R2

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End of the day, it's more infrastructure anxiety than range anxiety.
Yes, range/charging anxiety...charging being infrastructure. Definitely a bottleneck and source of anxiety but improving. Certainly WM and others will have an effect. More than anything else, this is what's required, in my opinion.

Electrek: Walmart will remodel 650 stores over the next 12 months, and DC fast‑charger installation is included in that plan.

How many chargers per location is unknown though it is speculated that by 2030, WM could account for over 10,000 chargers.

There are 8 automakers backing Ionna (BMW, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes‑Benz, Stellantis, Toyota) who says they will have 2,500 stations by 2030. (30,000+ stalls) It's being designed around Interstate corridors, high-traffic travel routes, destinations and retail-adjacent sites.

I thought I had read somewhere that China is estimated to have half to 3/4 of a million DCFC's. Not 19M.

I just don't see bigger batteries at a higher price point being the answer for most people. Those are the folks that simply are not adopting EV's till it works in their favor and I'm not seeing many of them adopting EREV's either. Greater range is a huge bonus but adding costly, heavy batteries to acheive that isn't ideal and most aren't going to pay the price being asked. We need energy density at no higher a price point.

And as pointed out already and one of my pet peeves...insurance costs pretty much wipes out any gas savings. During my early days of EV adoption this was not the case and it really makes me re-think my choices now. If more people go down to being a 1 vehicle household as a result, it's not going to be good for the industry.

I paid about $1k/year for insurance in 2018 on my first EV (Tesla M3 LR RWD). I've been quoted 6x's that for a BMW iX3. No thanks. Hopefully the R2 hits some sweet spots. Good range, easy DCFC, reasonable insurance, reliable, safe.
 

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400kW charging is future proofed since chargers at that speed are not even out in EU/US. Even when they become widely available it will still be a fast charge.
Most EV owners own a home, as do most Americans so at home charging is feasible. Even for those where it isn’t a 400 mile range is over 20000 miles a year which is much greater than the average annual mileage of a typical American. Therefore the vast majority can recharge just once a week when they go to Costco, Walmart etc and in 30 or so minutes get their weekly charge.

Those of a negative disposition will pick holes but charging infrastructure is largely here with more planned in the next year or so. The BMW (the purpose of this thread) hits the sweet spot for most people.
 

macb00kemdanno

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And as pointed out already and one of my pet peeves...insurance costs pretty much wipes out any gas savings. During my early days of EV adoption this was not the case and it really makes me re-think my choices now. If more people go down to being a 1 vehicle household as a result, it's not going to be good for the industry.

I paid about $1k/year for insurance in 2018 on my first EV (Tesla M3 LR RWD). I've been quoted 6x's that for a BMW iX3. No thanks. Hopefully the R2 hits some sweet spots. Good range, easy DCFC, reasonable insurance, reliable, safe.
Yeah, when I purchased my first Model 3 back in 2021 (and we still had the Outback), the insurance went from $700 to $900. Then, when we replaced the Outback with a Model Y, it jumped to $1,250. And with my current Model 3, we're currently sitting at $1,445.

It was going to be $1,600 with Allstate at my next renewal, but I shopped around and ended up going with Geico, as they offered the lower price with identical coverage.
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