Rivian Communication RAP1+Lidar

[Blue in NC]

on the same page you could preorder a rivian


I don't believe tesla ever mentioned anything beyond what can be interpreted as L2 on their website

And past 2018 the description for FSD had very few things it would do

What? You don't think that Tesla promised in writing that the hardware on the cars it sold were fully equipped to achieve hands free and eyes off self driving? There was no hint it was limited to Level 2. I was told in writing that my 2018 Model 3 would do that. I can't tell if you are even being serious about that claim.

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[shandering]

What? You don't think that Tesla promised in writing that the hardware on the cars it sold were fully equipped to achieve hands free and eyes off self driving? There was no hint it was limited to Level 2. I was told in writing that my 2018 Model 3 would do that. I can't tell if you are even being serious about that claim.

They didn't. They sold an FSD version that could drive in almost all circumstances with no intervention from the person in the driver's seat.

That is 100% clearly interpreted as level 2. Because there is a person in the driver's seat (which is not needed in level 4) and the fact that it is "almost" all circumstances. This i s simply a slight exaggeration of what FSD already does and pretty much what v14 lite will do.


When you get out of the car, your car will enter "park seek" mode, AKA banish.

Tesla never directly stated anywhere on the website that the car would have L4 abilities. Back then the average person (even today) knew very little about the levels of autonomy

Edit:

Here is the actual wording. As you can see it says that the car will conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat.

As you can see this is not any different from L2.

The only "exaggeration" is that supervision is technically an action.

To be honest if you received a car that performs like FSD v14 but in 2017 would you feel ripped off? Not at all. You'd feel very satisfied as you have a car that drives much better than waymo did back in 2017

It also says you can't add your car to anything but the tesla network when using self driving. No claims about unsupervised or the car ever driving with no one in it.

 

[NinjaWrap]

They didn't. They sold an FSD version that could drive in almost all circumstances with no intervention from the person in the driver's seat.

That is 100% clearly interpreted as level 2. Because there is a person in the driver's seat (which is not needed in level 4) and the fact that it is "almost" all circumstances. This i s simply a slight exaggeration of what FSD already does and pretty much what v14 lite will do.


When you get out of the car, your car will enter "park seek" mode, AKA banish.

Tesla never directly stated anywhere on the website that the car would have L4 abilities. Back then the average person (even today) knew very little about the levels of autonomy

Edit:

Here is the actual wording. As you can see it says that the car will conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat.

As you can see this is not any different from L2.

The only "exaggeration" is that supervision is technically an action.

To be honest if you received a car that performs like FSD v14 but in 2017 would you feel ripped off? Not at all. You'd feel very satisfied as you have a car that drives much better than waymo did back in 2017

It also says you can't add your car to anything but the tesla network when using self driving. No claims about unsupervised or the car ever driving with no one in it.

The order page may not have said so but the Tesla blog post (which they’ve since deleted) did.

The website also said “The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long-distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.” That line is specifically called out by California DMV as to why their naming was misleading.

but really most of the claims we made by Elon (including on shareholders calls), not on the website.

Here are a bunch of quotes up to 2022
https://motherfrunker.ca/fsd/

 

[shandering]

The website also said “The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long-distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.” That line is specifically called out by California DMV as to why their naming was misleading.

Tesla changed the name of autopilot, not FSD. Autopilot systems are not unsupervised.

 

[Zevo]

I've been thinking about this for a while. With pricing already announced for every version that will ship for the next year (which, based on every indication includes the switch to RAP1), unless Rivian is careful, somebody is going to literally get a car 10 minutes before somebody else who paid the exact same amount of money but doesn't get the additional headroom that RAP1 will bring. I can see that getting really ugly really fast, with some number of people attempting to return the car.

The easiest way to avoid this that I see is that the only version of the R2 that doens't come with RAP1 is the Launch Edition. In other words, people who buy the LE get a free tow package, a free key-fob, an extra color choice, and a free subscription to Autonomy+. People who don't buy the LE pay the same exact price as the LE, but get LIDAR and RAP1 rather than all of that. Now those two people who got their cars 10 minutes apart both got value for the price. The other two trims would start day one with RAP1 (coming later this year).

I do realize that car manuafactors come out with .5 year models all the time, but it's usually a change that most would consider 'minor'. The difference here (from what they are saying) is between being able to go level 4 with full eyes-off or not. Thats not going to be minor for a lot of people who buy this car. (assuming they deliver it)

Obviously all of this is speculation, but given the low volume of cars being made, the high perceived demand for the LE, and the customer service pain inflicted in just swapping over, I'm hopeful that this is the way they will handle it.

 

[Blue in NC]

I've been thinking about this for a while. With pricing already announced for every version that will ship for the next year (which, based on every indication includes the switch to RAP1), unless Rivian is careful, somebody is going to literally get a car 10 minutes before somebody else who paid the exact same amount of money but doesn't get the additional headroom that RAP1 will bring. I can see that getting really ugly really fast, with some number of people attempting to return the car.

The easiest way to avoid this that I see is that the only version of the R2 that doens't come with RAP1 is the Launch Edition. In other words, people who buy the LE get a free tow package, a free key-fob, an extra color choice, and a free subscription to Autonomy+. People who don't buy the LE pay the same exact price as the LE, but get LIDAR and RAP1 rather than all of that. Now those two people who got their cars 10 minutes apart both got value for the price. The other two trims would start day one with RAP1 (coming later this year).

I do realize that car manuafactors come out with .5 year models all the time, but it's usually a change that most would consider 'minor'. The difference here (from what they are saying) is between being able to go level 4 with full eyes-off or not. Thats not going to be minor for a lot of people who buy this car. (assuming they deliver it)

Obviously all of this is speculation, but given the low volume of cars being made, the high perceived demand for the LE, and the customer service pain inflicted in just swapping over, I'm hopeful that this is the way they will handle it.

I understand your point, and Rivian may handle it that way but there is really no surprise here. Rivian has announced that Lidar will come later. If you buy an R2 before Lidar is announced, you presumably are fine without a Lidar vehicle, even if the next guy gets Lidar for the same price. People may get bent out of shape but that's really more on them.

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