Rivian Quality - Two Genuine Questions

[Bikermomjudi]

I have been a long-time reservation holder slated for delivery in September/October of 2023. I expect to hear from a guide any day now. I love the R1S look and it was incredible to drive during my First Drive. Going from an R1S back to a gas powered car feels like traveling in a time machine and not in a good way. But I'm seriously considering cancelling and was within one button press of doing so tonight.

I have been following this forum as well as many of the others on Facebook. What I can't seem to get past is the reliability and quality of these vehicles. I can get over one or two misaligned panels, but it seems as though there are some major design flaws out there that get discovered on an almost daily basis. And there are also some major build quality issues, some of which impact safety (e.g., brake cabling issue). Most importantly, service sounds abysmal. The install base where I'm located is significantly lower right now than SoCal, but I hear stories about service in that area and it sounds like a nightmare. I worry about what happens when more trucks and SUVs get delivered in my area as Rivian tries to meet its objectives to make the street happy.

Any post in these forums that discusses quality issues is often met with some combination of the following responses:
- It's an "early adopter tax"
- "Mine was perfect, it's been to the service center seven times in the first three months of ownership but otherwise an amazing vehicle"
- "Mine had the same problem"
- "Mine had the same problem but its fixed now after being at the SC for three weeks"
- "Mine had the same problem plus these other things too."
- "Only people who have problems post in the forums. For every complaint there's 10 trucks/SUVs that are great." [I don't buy this.]
- "Every vehicle forum has hundreds of these same types of complaints." [I don't buy this either...go look at the RAV4 Prime Forum and you'll have a great point of comparison]
- And then one out of ten - "it's flawless, 400 miles and had it for a month."

I have owned five cars in my life - a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, a 2007 Infinity G35X, a 2011 BMW X3, and our two current vehicles - a 2017 Honda Pilot and a 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The only one of the bunch that had a series of issues at purchase was -and this will not come as a surprise - the BMW. But BMW stood by their product and after the third major issue gave me a seven year platinum warranty on the house. (Funny enough from the moment they issued that warranty until last year when I traded it in, it never had any other major issues). The other four just had routine maintenance and tires with the RAV4 being the most solidly built car I've ever owned. (I specifically mention that one because people cite the electronics in the modern automobile as the issue...but the RAV4 has plenty of electronics in it).

So my genuine questions are as follows:
- Why this level of quality that Rivian is currently producing an expectation of the norm? It seems like the Rivian community is willing to accept this level of quality which to me is shocking - it's an $80-100k vehicle, depending on when you locked in pricing. Is it because many owners are moving from a Tesla where quality is historically known to be low quality? What I really don't get - whether you can afford it or not, a car that's valued at $100k is still $100k.
- Don't you worry about owning the vehicle over the long run? There's a whole host of things we know about, but what about the other stuff we don't? And don't people worry about the safety?

I really want to know what I'm missing here, and I'm not posting this to be inflammatory in any way. I respect all the people in this forum who already own Rivians. A bit jealous in fact. Every part of me wants to buy this thing, but everything I keep reading tells me it's a bad decision.

I think you are right on both counts. Waiting two years for a car and taking ownership with no test drive or years of user feedback is a little crazy and probably makes you more forgiving than your typical Toyota or Ford owner. We feel vested in the success of the company and understand that we will be victims of growing pains. I do worry about owning the car long run. As I write this my car has been at SC for more than a week due to Possible Electrical Hazard and Critical Battery Issues. The car died completely and had to be flat bedded to service center. Rivian offers Uber credits and rentals when needed but like most people being without my car for long stretches or waiting long periods for service is frustrating. Will there be a market for used Rivians or will they go the way of the Delorean?

Being an early adopter is frustrating, disappointing and scary. It is also fun and exciting. I look forward to reading the forum every day and learning about the community. Every day I see more Rivys on the road and feel like I am part of the fossil fuel solution. It is a gamble and you have to go in knowing that.

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[nellbarr]

I ordered an R1s 3/11/2021. Recieved it last Thursday and she is GORGEOUS. Limestone Adventure. Unfortunately after 9 miles something went haywire and she went back to the service center.
Contact and ensuing assistance was stellar. I have a R1S loaner until she is fixed (motor issue) next week.

I love Love LOVE the R1S! She is beautiful, quiet, great sound system…I do not regret the decision. I have had many cars-MB, Lexus, Acura. Ford, Lincoln, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Dodge, Chevy….nothing is perfect and the only lemon law vehicle was the Dodge. Mercedes Loved but the expense of keeping them up after 75,000 miles was outrageous. FYI I had also ordered during my wait-3 other EV’s (Ford, VW, Ford lighting) and cancelled as they just did not come close in terms of storage, features, range….

 

[rob_d]

I ordered an R1s 3/11/2021. Recieved it last Thursday and she is GORGEOUS. Limestone Adventure. Unfortunately after 9 miles something went haywire and she went back to the service center.
Contact and ensuing assistance was stellar. I have a R1S loaner until she is fixed (motor issue) next week.

I love Love LOVE the R1S! She is beautiful, quiet, great sound system…I do not regret the decision. I have had many cars-MB, Lexus, Acura. Ford, Lincoln, Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Dodge, Chevy….nothing is perfect and the only lemon law vehicle was the Dodge. Mercedes Loved but the expense of keeping them up after 75,000 miles was outrageous. FYI I had also ordered during my wait-3 other EV’s (Ford, VW, Ford lighting) and cancelled as they just did not come close in terms of storage, features, range….

@nellbarr I appreciate this feedback. I find your commentary so interesting - love the car but you've literally driven it 9 miles and it's back to the service center. To be honest this is exactly the kind of post that I had been seeing that had me starting to question my choice. Of course you're spending time in the loaner so you're getting to know the vehicle and have it grow on you, so I get how you're learning to love it.

With my original post a lot of people have drawn the assumption that I've concluded (confirmation bias, etc.) that the car is going to be a lemon so I should just move on. Far from it - and I also do believe that the internet is where people go to complain....sometimes excessively. So I get that too. I'm just trying to understand what makes this vehicle so great that you're not worried about it going back to the service center after only 9 miles. This is an honest question.

On the plus side even though the car already has an issue, it sounds like you're getting great service which is nice to hear. Not sure how many Rivians there are in Miami these days.

Just out of curiosity did they tell you what the motor issue was and what the fix is going to be?

 

[nellbarr]

I have had the same model R1s as a loaner for the last 4 days, so I have been driving and experiencing all the features-it’s El Capo Granite (?) with the same interior. I believe it is a motor issue and will get a full disclosure on what it was and how it was remedied. I drove on the highway and don’t have any idea what triggered the alerts-bumps? Something came loose? It had 17 miles on it-don’t think that they tested it on a highway. Their response time was very quick-I was getting calls & text messages with updates on the status of the towing, parts, and expect the car to be returned this week Friday/Saturday with a detailed explanation on what the issue was and that it was fully resolved. I was very impressed with the response. Shit happens.

 

[Guy]

@nellbarr I appreciate this feedback. I find your commentary so interesting - love the car but you've literally driven it 9 miles and it's back to the service center. To be honest this is exactly the kind of post that I had been seeing that had me starting to question my choice. Of course you're spending time in the loaner so you're getting to know the vehicle and have it grow on you, so I get how you're learning to love it.

With my original post a lot of people have drawn the assumption that I've concluded (confirmation bias, etc.) that the car is going to be a lemon so I should just move on. Far from it - and I also do believe that the internet is where people go to complain....sometimes excessively. So I get that too. I'm just trying to understand what makes this vehicle so great that you're not worried about it going back to the service center after only 9 miles. This is an honest question.

On the plus side even though the car already has an issue, it sounds like you're getting great service which is nice to hear. Not sure how many Rivians there are in Miami these days.

Just out of curiosity did they tell you what the motor issue was and what the fix is going to be?

Rob - I understand your concerns and I also had gears. I picked up my R1T from the factory last Friday and did an 830 mile drive back to Pennsylvania. This obviously had some risk of things were not perfect. But my truck was perfect (with the exception of a couple of minor panel fit issues but very small). I had been worried about wheel alignment, wind noise, cracked roof glass etc but no issues at all.

 

[nellbarr]

Not yet, I will post once I receive and review the issue with service. I am pretty sure that Miami Center had not delivered a vehicle that had 17 miles and the motor defect light came on within the first 9 miles...

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I think you are right on both counts. Waiting two years for a car and taking ownership with no test drive or years of user feedback is a little crazy and probably makes you more forgiving than your typical Toyota or Ford owner. We feel vested in the success of the company and understand that we will be victims of growing pains. I do worry about owning the car long run. As I write this my car has been at SC for more than a week due to Possible Electrical Hazard and Critical Battery Issues. The car died completely and had to be flat bedded to service center. Rivian offers Uber credits and rentals when needed but like most people being without my car for long stretches or waiting long periods for service is frustrating. Will there be a market for used Rivians or will they go the way of the Delorean?

Being an early adopter is frustrating, disappointing and scary. It is also fun and exciting. I look forward to reading the forum every day and learning about the community. Every day I see more Rivys on the road and feel like I am part of the fossil fuel solution. It is a gamble and you have to go in knowing that.

Delorean made 9k cars total. I don't think we have to worry about Rivian failing the same way.

 

[LaJollaAaron]

- Why this level of quality that Rivian is currently producing an expectation of the norm?

i don’t think this is an expectation of the norm. Hence the folks complaining about all the various things you’ve mentioned. But it’s not pair of pants from Nordstrom, you can’t just take it back and get a refund. So rationalization takes place. Plus, despite these shortcomings- most people are experiencing a very pleasurable driving experience. I have a 7k lbs vehicle that does 0-60 in ~3 seconds. It’s a blast to drive. On the other hand, RJ promised us an interior that would compete with Land Rover - I came from a Ranger Rover Sport - my R1S interior falls way short of that promise. But I took delivery. It’s mine now. I absolutely love driving past gas stations. I’ve driven as far Mammoth (I live in San Diego) but it’s my daily driver and I almost never use public chargers - just the one in my garage.

i suspect there will be many improvements and fixes along the way. And if I decide to replace it at some point, it might not be a Rivian, but for now, all things considered, I’m a happy camper. Even with my misaligned panels, egregiously stupid climate control system and no Apple CarPlay and weird power steering wobble when I hit ~82mph.

- Don't you worry about owning the vehicle over the long run?

Not. At. All. If I can afford a $80-100k for an SUV I’m in a position to replace it if needed. Will I be upset or bothered, perhaps, but I made the bet.

Fun side note - I see more and more on the road & almost every time I encounter one - a flash of headlights, a Shaka, a wave or head nod of some sort - the Rivian wave is real.

 

[rob_d]

Hey @LaJollaAaron thanks so much for this response. Many others have offered meaningful feedback that has helped with my decision, but you're the first person to actually answer both questions (without telling me about all the assumptions I've made or what kind of person I must be). Really do appreciate it!

 

[COdogman]

Hey @LaJollaAaron thanks so much for this response. Many others have offered meaningful feedback that has helped with my decision, but you're the first person to actually answer both questions (without telling me about all the assumptions I've made or what kind of person I must be). Really do appreciate it!

 

[Count Orlok]

Hey @LaJollaAaron thanks so much for this response. Many others have offered meaningful feedback that has helped with my decision, but you're the first person to actually answer both questions (without telling me about all the assumptions I've made or what kind of person I must be). Really do appreciate it!

WTAF? The Count must be Chopped-liver.

 

[ctg]

I have been a long-time reservation holder slated for delivery in September/October of 2023. I expect to hear from a guide any day now. I love the R1S look and it was incredible to drive during my First Drive. Going from an R1S back to a gas powered car feels like traveling in a time machine and not in a good way. But I'm seriously considering cancelling and was within one button press of doing so tonight.

I have been following this forum as well as many of the others on Facebook. What I can't seem to get past is the reliability and quality of these vehicles. I can get over one or two misaligned panels, but it seems as though there are some major design flaws out there that get discovered on an almost daily basis. And there are also some major build quality issues, some of which impact safety (e.g., brake cabling issue). Most importantly, service sounds abysmal. The install base where I'm located is significantly lower right now than SoCal, but I hear stories about service in that area and it sounds like a nightmare. I worry about what happens when more trucks and SUVs get delivered in my area as Rivian tries to meet its objectives to make the street happy.

Any post in these forums that discusses quality issues is often met with some combination of the following responses:
- It's an "early adopter tax"
- "Mine was perfect, it's been to the service center seven times in the first three months of ownership but otherwise an amazing vehicle"
- "Mine had the same problem"
- "Mine had the same problem but its fixed now after being at the SC for three weeks"
- "Mine had the same problem plus these other things too."
- "Only people who have problems post in the forums. For every complaint there's 10 trucks/SUVs that are great." [I don't buy this.]
- "Every vehicle forum has hundreds of these same types of complaints." [I don't buy this either...go look at the RAV4 Prime Forum and you'll have a great point of comparison]
- And then one out of ten - "it's flawless, 400 miles and had it for a month."

I have owned five cars in my life - a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, a 2007 Infinity G35X, a 2011 BMW X3, and our two current vehicles - a 2017 Honda Pilot and a 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The only one of the bunch that had a series of issues at purchase was -and this will not come as a surprise - the BMW. But BMW stood by their product and after the third major issue gave me a seven year platinum warranty on the house. (Funny enough from the moment they issued that warranty until last year when I traded it in, it never had any other major issues). The other four just had routine maintenance and tires with the RAV4 being the most solidly built car I've ever owned. (I specifically mention that one because people cite the electronics in the modern automobile as the issue...but the RAV4 has plenty of electronics in it).

So my genuine questions are as follows:
- Why this level of quality that Rivian is currently producing an expectation of the norm? It seems like the Rivian community is willing to accept this level of quality which to me is shocking - it's an $80-100k vehicle, depending on when you locked in pricing. Is it because many owners are moving from a Tesla where quality is historically known to be low quality? What I really don't get - whether you can afford it or not, a car that's valued at $100k is still $100k.
- Don't you worry about owning the vehicle over the long run? There's a whole host of things we know about, but what about the other stuff we don't? And don't people worry about the safety?

I really want to know what I'm missing here, and I'm not posting this to be inflammatory in any way. I respect all the people in this forum who already own Rivians. A bit jealous in fact. Every part of me wants to buy this thing, but everything I keep reading tells me it's a bad decision.

I’m

 

[rob_d]

I’m

speechless?

 

[Coj]

I have been a long-time reservation holder slated for delivery in September/October of 2023. I expect to hear from a guide any day now. I love the R1S look and it was incredible to drive during my First Drive. Going from an R1S back to a gas powered car feels like traveling in a time machine and not in a good way. But I'm seriously considering cancelling and was within one button press of doing so tonight.

I have been following this forum as well as many of the others on Facebook. What I can't seem to get past is the reliability and quality of these vehicles. I can get over one or two misaligned panels, but it seems as though there are some major design flaws out there that get discovered on an almost daily basis. And there are also some major build quality issues, some of which impact safety (e.g., brake cabling issue). Most importantly, service sounds abysmal. The install base where I'm located is significantly lower right now than SoCal, but I hear stories about service in that area and it sounds like a nightmare. I worry about what happens when more trucks and SUVs get delivered in my area as Rivian tries to meet its objectives to make the street happy.

Any post in these forums that discusses quality issues is often met with some combination of the following responses:
- It's an "early adopter tax"
- "Mine was perfect, it's been to the service center seven times in the first three months of ownership but otherwise an amazing vehicle"
- "Mine had the same problem"
- "Mine had the same problem but its fixed now after being at the SC for three weeks"
- "Mine had the same problem plus these other things too."
- "Only people who have problems post in the forums. For every complaint there's 10 trucks/SUVs that are great." [I don't buy this.]
- "Every vehicle forum has hundreds of these same types of complaints." [I don't buy this either...go look at the RAV4 Prime Forum and you'll have a great point of comparison]
- And then one out of ten - "it's flawless, 400 miles and had it for a month."

I have owned five cars in my life - a 2001 Nissan Pathfinder, a 2007 Infinity G35X, a 2011 BMW X3, and our two current vehicles - a 2017 Honda Pilot and a 2021 Toyota RAV4 Prime. The only one of the bunch that had a series of issues at purchase was -and this will not come as a surprise - the BMW. But BMW stood by their product and after the third major issue gave me a seven year platinum warranty on the house. (Funny enough from the moment they issued that warranty until last year when I traded it in, it never had any other major issues). The other four just had routine maintenance and tires with the RAV4 being the most solidly built car I've ever owned. (I specifically mention that one because people cite the electronics in the modern automobile as the issue...but the RAV4 has plenty of electronics in it).

So my genuine questions are as follows:
- Why this level of quality that Rivian is currently producing an expectation of the norm? It seems like the Rivian community is willing to accept this level of quality which to me is shocking - it's an $80-100k vehicle, depending on when you locked in pricing. Is it because many owners are moving from a Tesla where quality is historically known to be low quality? What I really don't get - whether you can afford it or not, a car that's valued at $100k is still $100k.
- Don't you worry about owning the vehicle over the long run? There's a whole host of things we know about, but what about the other stuff we don't? And don't people worry about the safety?

I really want to know what I'm missing here, and I'm not posting this to be inflammatory in any way. I respect all the people in this forum who already own Rivians. A bit jealous in fact. Every part of me wants to buy this thing, but everything I keep reading tells me it's a bad decision.

+15000 miles and a tire rotation and two minor, truly, recalls that took 10mins to fix all three items done with a service call in my driveway. I am tall and the seat tends to squeak a bit which I have seen in the forum but other than that it is amazing. To buy a start-up EV you have to have an early adopter mentality but I have been pleasantly surprised and driving it has way exceeded my expectations.

 

[Ready4Rivian]

Ok, I have an R1S vin in the 11K, mileage 3.5K. Can't tell you if the service is good or bad, never been to the SC. I have called Rivian from the road about a warning indicator on my 12 volt battery. The service rep on the phone quickly diagnosed that nothing was wrong and instructed me how to clear it. The Ford Explorer ST that it replaced had multiple recalls and ghost infotaiment issues, not to mention I had to recalibrate the windows every week.

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