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jjswan33

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Starting to wonder if I should have bought the f150 lightning instead...
Why?? Because a company that will eventually need capital to grow is accessing capital markets. I just don’t understand the pessimism.

Has my Rivian experience been perfect, no, do I have any regrets, absolutely not.
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Scoiatael

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Why?? Because a company that will eventually need capital to grow is accessing capital markets. I just don’t understand the pessimism.

Has my Rivian experience been perfect, no, do I have any regrets, absolutely not.
Rivian still has a bumpy few years ahead. They have enough cash through 2025 according to the last investor's call.

I've had a near perfect experience with Rivian. Just like the Model 3 for Tesla, the more affordable R2 vehicles will likely decide the fate of the company.
 

GSGun

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It's convertible debt raise. Cash or shares due as interest with maturity in 2029. Share dilution and less EPS is a likely possibility and market has to price in this effect. Whether it's good or bad for long term prospects of Rivian is hard to say at this point. I don't see a S3 filing with SEC at the moment either.
 

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Interesting. Market sure doesn't like it. I suppose if you know you will need to money maybe they get better terms now than in 2 years when interest rates are probably higher and they have less capital on hand.
I was thinking about this too. I wonder if they're trying to average out the market in chunks over the next two years as a hedge.
 

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It is a private institutional offering. The market will never see the bond offering, so very likely they already have a buyer lined up.

“Rivian Automotive, Inc. (Nasdaq: RIVN) (“Rivian”) today announced its intention to offer, subject to market and other conditions, $1,300,000,000 aggregate principal amount of green convertible senior notes due 2029 (the “notes”) in a private offering to qualified institutional buyers pursuant to Rule 144A under the Securities Act of 1933, as amended (the “Securities Act”). Rivian also expects to grant the initial purchasers of the notes an option to purchase, for settlement within a period of 13 days from, and including, the date the notes are first issued, up to an additional $200,000,000 principal amount of notes.”
 

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Why?? Because a company that will eventually need capital to grow is accessing capital markets. I just don’t understand the pessimism.

Has my Rivian experience been perfect, no, do I have any regrets, absolutely not.
Why? Production is way under original projections.

From a vehicle standpoint Rivian has done as good of a job as could possibly be expected. But the question remains as to if whether Rivian can build enough vehicles at decent margin. That question won't be answered for a few years.
 

jjswan33

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Why? Production is way under original projections.

From a vehicle standpoint Rivian has done as good of a job as could possibly be expected. But the question remains as to if whether Rivian can build enough vehicles at decent margin. That question won't be answered for a few years.
Most of what happens with R1 production will have limited impact on Rivian’s long term potential. For example I saw an interesting stat yesterday, 96% of Tesla’s sales are M3 and MY. Long term I expect R1 should only account for similar volumes for Rivian the rest being R2 and RDV a similar sentiment to what @Scoiatael said above.
 

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No worries....yet....

Rivian R1T R1S Rivian to raise $1.3B from sale of bonds. Premature? 1678199240856
 

COdogman

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Let me get this right. During the earnings call, just 7 days ago, question was asked about the liquidity status and need to raise more cash. To which Clare and RJ said that they had sufficient funds to get them through 2024 into 2025.

So what changed in the last week that they are now disclosing the corporate debt offering?

I already see class action law suit being worked by ambulance chasing attorneys...

Raises question about their whole conference call. This and the production rate difference between the official and "internal goal", which now effectively is the exception by all the analysts.

Like I'd said in another thread, that was the worst call I'd heard in a very long time so I shouldn't be surprised at this action now....
Ambulance chasing attorneys can always find a reason to sue. That’s what they do. Rivian wouldn’t have much trouble beating that unless it was proven they lied about how much cash they actually have. They could easily say they were honest in the earnings call about having enough to get through 2024 and that clearly isn’t enough to do what they need to do long term. All of those can be true.
 

zipzag

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Most of what happens with R1 production will have limited impact on Rivian’s long term potential. For example I saw an interesting stat yesterday, 96% of Tesla’s sales are M3 and MY. Long term I expect R1 should only account for similar volumes for Rivian the rest being R2 and RDV a similar sentiment to what @Scoiatael said above.
Yes, Tesla could stop building the S/X and it would have little impact.

Adequate parts for the R2 should be a major concern IMO. I assume that using LFP batteries in that line will be a major strategy.

I am completely unsure if smaller manufacturers can survive independently in the future EV world. Can Rivian be a Subaru? I have no idea.

Needless to say I'm extremely skeptical of Lucid and Fisker. Rivian at least had excellent capitalization.
 

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jjswan33

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Needless to say I'm extremely skeptical of Lucid and Fisker. Rivian at least had excellent capitalization.
I agree at least with respect to Lucid. It’s ludicrous they have a higher market cap than Rivian. Luxury sedans are not nearly as compelling than any of Rivians products IMO and their runway isn’t Nearly as long. Don’t know much about Fisker other than Magna is building their product and it’s In a more budget friendly segment.
 

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Not sure what you are talking about. Claire said they would need to raise capital and would look for market opportunities to do so.
That statement was in the context of well into the future. Not 7 days after the earnings call. I fully expected Rivian to offer secondary and debt as we go along.

My point is the timing of the announcement. The fact that this was announced just 7 days after the earnings call means that it was in work and had every intention of doing so last week.

The issue is the credibility and trust of the management team. It seems that the market agrees since as I write this, its down 12% - all time low.
 

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IIRC, Tesla did pretty much the same thing back in the day. It isn't lawsuit material. But I agree with other posters that the size of this offering is kinda small. It is obvious they will need to take on more debt and/or sell more stock in the next three years.
They certainly will. Expect more bond issues and equity raises. This does not mean they are a bad company as even Fortune 500 companies tap the capital markets. They'll be figuring out what the 'right' capital structure for them is over time. Ideally they start reducing down big chunky owner & early investor equity stakes and bring in more institutional money.

All part of the journey .... says the ex-banker ;-)
 

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Why?? Because a company that will eventually need capital to grow is accessing capital markets. I just don’t understand the pessimism.

Has my Rivian experience been perfect, no, do I have any regrets, absolutely not.
I'd be more concerned if they weren't. Is it early? Maybe, but it's not like the capital suddenly appears overnight with these things.
 

Tahoe Man

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Why raise money at low interest rates last year when you could raise money now, at higher interest rates? At this time last year, they were losing less money than they are now.

Rivian’s management has no idea what they are doing.
Looks like this is getting to be a final lifeline for them. I'm not sure how they survive longer term. They'll have to rely on the economy being just right, that is rates stop rising and start to fall. But more then likely either rates stay high because inflation or rates drop because the economy is slowing quickly and unemployment rises. On top of all of this, is more competition from automakers that are in better positions financially.

They have their work cut out and this isn't Tesla who had economic and financial winds at their back and still had major issues.
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