Tie rod upgrade, CHEAP!! New compatible parts!

[R1Thor]

First let me just explain a little bit about who you just implied "seems like he might know what he's doing"

-I've been wheeling for 23 years
-I've owned 5 different off road trucks
-I run an off road group
-I'm also a member of the 4wdabc
-I have a Canadian class 5, and a class 1 (trucker's license) including air brakes, and a Dutch license
-I've been repairing vehicles since I was 15 (31 years ago)
-I've never paid a mechanic for anything but wheel alignments
-I run 2 separate automotive YouTube channels plus a 3rd channel dedicated to back country exploration (for 6 years)
-I have formal track race training and experience
-I've been in the auto industry for 10 years
-I've taught several people how to wheel

I AM a professional. And any "professional" that suggests that only inexperienced people break their trucks, is a complete idiot. That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

Rivian specifically upgraded the tie rods on Gen 2 because they KNEW they were a bit too weak, despite being used as a "fuse" to protect the steering rack.

There's an entire industry around beefier tie rods... THEY BREAK, it's a fact of life, not inexperienced wheeling. Quite frankly your comment was a little insulting.

I go wheeling about 4 times a month, and have done so for over two decades. I know what I'm doing.

And yes, if you do the kind of wheeling that I'm doing, then eventually you'll probably break a tie rod. If you don't think so, then you're not off roading, your soft roading.

Cool story man.

I'm not here to be adverserial, but you decided to pull out the creds to prove you're the smart one.
I'll bow out of this one.

I've wheeled a bunch with guys with over 40 years experience who would disagree with you. But now I'm digging into the 'appeal to authority' fallacy.

That said, you're conflating different things. I'll play a little bit of "I know what I'm talking about too"
Your suggestion that Rivian beefed up the tie rods because they're too weak is a fallacy unto itself. You're suggesting that's the only Engineering reason to do so. I'd submit: they ONLY beefed them up in the Tri and Quad (not the Dual), which both have a higher torque rating than the Gen1. SO, maybe they're assuming only 'serious' off-roaders need more than 2 motors?

I guess we're all just soft roading then. Keep on gatekeeping offroading. I'm sure it'll work out for you and you'll make lots of friends that way

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[shadow_tek001]

Cool story man.

I'm not here to be adverserial, but you decided to pull out the creds to prove you're the smart one.
I'll bow out of this one.

I've wheeled a bunch with guys with over 40 years experience who would disagree with you. But now I'm digging into the 'appeal to authority' fallacy.

That said, you're conflating different things. I'll play a little bit of "I know what I'm talking about too"
Your suggestion that Rivian beefed up the tie rods because they're too weak is a fallacy unto itself. You're suggesting that's the only Engineering reason to do so. I'd submit: they ONLY beefed them up in the Tri and Quad (not the Dual), which both have a higher torque rating than the Gen1. SO, maybe they're assuming only 'serious' off-roaders need more than 2 motors?

I guess we're all just soft roading then. Keep on gatekeeping offroading. I'm sure it'll work out for you and you'll make lots of friends that way

The gen2 tri motor front axle torque is nearly the same as the gen 1... But regardless, I'm on board with the fact that they beefed them up for multiple reasons. But the tie rod thickness was definitely a point of discussion amongst plenty of rivian owners. One even mentioning that rivian was "aware of the issue" ( https://www.[Banned Site].com/threa...ng.4128/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic )

You've wheeled with people with 40 years of experience? Ok, not sure why that matters, so have I infact, many many many many times. I'll say it again, breaking tie rods is a fact of life, plenty of experienced professional wheelers carry a spare tie rod. I have with previous trucks, and I now will on this one. It's not gate keeping, it's advice.

I "pulled out the creds" because you came out swinging suggesting I didn't know what I was doing.

My intention with the original post, was to be helpful and provide good information and advise to people who want to wheel their Rivians and potentially prevent getting stuck on a trail with a broken tie rod. Then you come on, comment that I might not know what I'm doing. Notice how your the only one? Everyone else is appreciative. You started by being the jerk, so yeah, I'm gonna be adversarial as a direct response.

 

[R1Thor]

The gen2 tri motor front axle torque is nearly the same as the gen 1... But regardless, I'm on board with the fact that they beefed them up for multiple reasons. But the tie rod thickness was definitely a point of discussion amongst plenty of rivian owners. One even mentioning that rivian was "aware of the issue" ( https://www.[Banned Site].com/threa...ng.4128/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic )

You've wheeled with people with 40 years of experience? Ok, not sure why that matters, so have I infact, many many many many times. I'll say it again, breaking tie rods is a fact of life, plenty of experienced professional wheelers carry a spare tie rod. I have with previous trucks, and I now will on this one. It's not gate keeping, it's advice.

I "pulled out the creds" because you came out swinging suggesting I didn't know what I was doing.

My intention with the original post, was to be helpful and provide good information and advise to people who want to wheel their Rivians and potentially prevent getting stuck on a trail with a broken tie rod. Then you come on, comment that I might not know what I'm doing. Notice how your the only one? Everyone else is appreciative. You started by being the jerk, so yeah, I'm gonna be adversarial as a direct response.

A few things here I'd like to clarify:

***I do think you provided a helpful original post, with good information.***

1- those guys who have 40+ years experience own Off-Road Consulting. They're the coaches. I'm just telling you what they've taught me. You brought some credentials, so I'm adding those that I've come to experience.

2- the second you state
"if you do the kind of wheeling that I'm doing, then eventually you'll probably break a tie rod. "
You've defined a very narrow perspective that suits your narrative.
So now, we can only extrapolate that:
1- none of us are actually off-roading (because we haven't broken a tie rod, by your definition) or
2- your expectations for off-roading are beyond practicality, especially for most people, or fit into a very narrow definition. And especially for most Rivian owners (we're not talking dedicated purpose built crawlers here).

I do find that even when rock crawling (to the limits of this vehicle), it's verily about tire placement and track, and not forcing yourself anywhere the vehicle doesn't want to go. But I digress.

If you need these to be true to fit your narrative, then this isn't a conversation: you've already pre-defined your terms. So, I guess I'll just off-road the way I know how to, where I test the limits of my driving and my vehicle, but don't aim to break things, because that'd make me a true 'off-roader.'


Lastly, I'd like to point out that I said a lot of nice things about your writeup, which you disregarded in favor of lambasting me for criticizing ONE point which is that you've created unnecessary worry for drivers (splitting hairs and nuance, in your world, it's inevitable, in the rest of the world: it's not highly likely, but I never said it was implausible either).

I said
1- "OP seems like he might know what he's doing..."
Credit where credit is due: I didn't suggest you didn't know how to wheel. Somehow you decided to fixate on some nonsensical narrative that I did. I suggested I've learned from professionals, which is also true. At no point did I say you weren't one. Two things can be true.
2- "I'm sure there's a modicum of unfortunate luck in here too, and being prepared is also cool."
3- "So, I'm also being careful not to suggest that there's zero risk or that
4- OP did anything inherently incorrect."
5- I'm just not cool with the idea that " get yourself a spare for the inevitable break... "
6- And it's cool not to need Rivian to fix everything (I'm a huge fan of DIY and self-repair/maintenance). So, not taking away from that. "

It's absolutely not inevitable (this is one of the parts you take issue with, that and the fallacy that I implied you had no idea what you were doing, which I'm disputing by quoting my own original post). And I did give you plenty of credit, but apparently I didn't do a good enough job stroking your ego, so instead you decided to tell me why I'm wrong.

Did I get that right? Or did I miss something else you're inferring out of thin air?

 

[VSG]

Quite frankly your comment was a little insulting.

He said you seem to know what you're doing. How is that insulting?

 

[shadow_tek001]

A few things here I'd like to clarify:

***I do think you provided a helpful original post, with good information.***

1- those guys who have 40+ years experience own Off-Road Consulting. They're the coaches. I'm just telling you what they've taught me. You brought some credentials, so I'm adding those that I've come to experience.

2- the second you state
"if you do the kind of wheeling that I'm doing, then eventually you'll probably break a tie rod. "
You've defined a very narrow perspective that suits your narrative.
So now, we can only extrapolate that:
1- none of us are actually off-roading (because we haven't broken a tie rod, by your definition) or
2- your expectations for off-roading are beyond practicality, especially for most people, or fit into a very narrow definition. And especially for most Rivian owners (we're not talking dedicated purpose built crawlers here).

I do find that even when rock crawling (to the limits of this vehicle), it's verily about tire placement and track, and not forcing yourself anywhere the vehicle doesn't want to go. But I digress.

If you need these to be true to fit your narrative, then this isn't a conversation: you've already pre-defined your terms. So, I guess I'll just off-road the way I know how to, where I test the limits of my driving and my vehicle, but don't aim to break things, because that'd make me a true 'off-roader.'


Lastly, I'd like to point out that I said a lot of nice things about your writeup, which you disregarded in favor of lambasting me for criticizing ONE point which is that you've created unnecessary worry for drivers (splitting hairs and nuance, in your world, it's inevitable, in the rest of the world: it's not highly likely, but I never said it was implausible either).

I said
1- "OP seems like he might know what he's doing..."
Credit where credit is due: I didn't suggest you didn't know how to wheel. Somehow you decided to fixate on some nonsensical narrative that I did. I suggested I've learned from professionals, which is also true. At no point did I say you weren't one. Two things can be true.
2- "I'm sure there's a modicum of unfortunate luck in here too, and being prepared is also cool."
3- "So, I'm also being careful not to suggest that there's zero risk or that
4- OP did anything inherently incorrect."
5- I'm just not cool with the idea that " get yourself a spare for the inevitable break... "
6- And it's cool not to need Rivian to fix everything (I'm a huge fan of DIY and self-repair/maintenance). So, not taking away from that. "

It's absolutely not inevitable (this is one of the parts you take issue with, that and the fallacy that I implied you had no idea what you were doing, which I'm disputing by quoting my own original post). And I did give you plenty of credit, but apparently I didn't do a good enough job stroking your ego, so instead you decided to tell me why I'm wrong.

Did I get that right? Or did I miss something else you're inferring out of thin air?

Fair enough. I think we've actually narrowed this down to one point where we genuinely disagree.

I wasn't trying to say that every Rivian owner is destined to bend a tie rod, or that you aren't off-roading unless you break one. That's broader than what I intended.

My point was that if you regularly do difficult, technical trails, eventually mechanical failures become part of the hobby. Sometimes it's a CV, sometimes a U-joint, sometimes a steering component, sometimes a tie rod. It doesn't mean you drove poorly—it means parts have finite strength and off-roading pushes them toward those limits.

I strongly disagree with the idea that broken parts are primarily a sign of inexperience. In over two decades of wheeling I've seen very experienced drivers break steering, axles, driveshafts, and suspension parts. Good line choice absolutely reduces the odds, but it doesn't eliminate them.

As for the Rivian specifically, I wasn't claiming the Gen 2 tie rod changes prove there was a design flaw. Engineering changes happen for lots of reasons. My point was simply that Rivian themselves saw value in increasing the robustness of that component on certain models, and the original Gen 1 tie rods have been discussed extensively in the community for years.

I also appreciate you pointing out that you liked the original write-up. I probably focused too much on the part of your post that rubbed me the wrong way. That's on me.
At the end of the day, I think we agree on more than we disagree

Where we differ is simply on the likelihood of needing a tie rod if someone regularly does challenging trails. Based on my experience, I think it's likely enough that carrying a spare is cheap insurance (I mean, you can get a tie rod that fits for like 50 bucks). If someone never needs it, the of course that's the best possible outcome.

 

[shadow_tek001]

He said you seem to know what you're doing. How is that insulting?

It was the " people damaging their vehicles are the ones who don't know how to drive them off-road " - I admit though that while this line did bother me, I probably jumped the gun and became a little too hyper focused on it. The rest of the comment at that point just grew the frustration. Honestly, had that line not been in the comment, I probably would have just read the rest and figured, whatever, that's his opinion.

 

[shadow_tek001]

A few things here I'd like to clarify:

***I do think you provided a helpful original post, with good information.***

1- those guys who have 40+ years experience own Off-Road Consulting. They're the coaches. I'm just telling you what they've taught me. You brought some credentials, so I'm adding those that I've come to experience.

2- the second you state
"if you do the kind of wheeling that I'm doing, then eventually you'll probably break a tie rod. "
You've defined a very narrow perspective that suits your narrative.
So now, we can only extrapolate that:
1- none of us are actually off-roading (because we haven't broken a tie rod, by your definition) or
2- your expectations for off-roading are beyond practicality, especially for most people, or fit into a very narrow definition. And especially for most Rivian owners (we're not talking dedicated purpose built crawlers here).

I do find that even when rock crawling (to the limits of this vehicle), it's verily about tire placement and track, and not forcing yourself anywhere the vehicle doesn't want to go. But I digress.

If you need these to be true to fit your narrative, then this isn't a conversation: you've already pre-defined your terms. So, I guess I'll just off-road the way I know how to, where I test the limits of my driving and my vehicle, but don't aim to break things, because that'd make me a true 'off-roader.'


Lastly, I'd like to point out that I said a lot of nice things about your writeup, which you disregarded in favor of lambasting me for criticizing ONE point which is that you've created unnecessary worry for drivers (splitting hairs and nuance, in your world, it's inevitable, in the rest of the world: it's not highly likely, but I never said it was implausible either).

I said
1- "OP seems like he might know what he's doing..."
Credit where credit is due: I didn't suggest you didn't know how to wheel. Somehow you decided to fixate on some nonsensical narrative that I did. I suggested I've learned from professionals, which is also true. At no point did I say you weren't one. Two things can be true.
2- "I'm sure there's a modicum of unfortunate luck in here too, and being prepared is also cool."
3- "So, I'm also being careful not to suggest that there's zero risk or that
4- OP did anything inherently incorrect."
5- I'm just not cool with the idea that " get yourself a spare for the inevitable break... "
6- And it's cool not to need Rivian to fix everything (I'm a huge fan of DIY and self-repair/maintenance). So, not taking away from that. "

It's absolutely not inevitable (this is one of the parts you take issue with, that and the fallacy that I implied you had no idea what you were doing, which I'm disputing by quoting my own original post). And I did give you plenty of credit, but apparently I didn't do a good enough job stroking your ego, so instead you decided to tell me why I'm wrong.

Did I get that right? Or did I miss something else you're inferring out of thin air?

In any event - I'm grateful that I'm not the only one out there wheeling a Rivian. There's lots of us, and we all enjoy the same thing. So my apologies for letting my pride get the best of me.

 

[R1Thor]

It was the " people damaging their vehicles are the ones who don't know how to drive them off-road " - I admit though that while this line did bother me, I probably jumped the gun and became a little too hyper focused on it. The rest of the comment at that point just grew the frustration. Honestly, had that line not been in the comment, I probably would have just read the rest and figured, whatever, that's his opinion.

That's a fair point of criticism. In retrospect, I probably should've left that comment out. It didn't dawn on me that it would be taken as criticism and not moreso a recommendation to 'learn' to drive the vehicle as best you can. But again: acknowledging things do happen, whether luck, misjudgment, or in your case, being more adventurous than some of our risk tolerances allow for us to be.

What you engineered here is a good kit for people pushing the envelope in their Rivians. I'm likely to copy your homework and add one to my kit just in case (though I'll continue to endeavor to try not to break things, and likely will not match your experience and off-road prowess)!

Cheers!

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