Who’s NOT uncancelling?

[astonius]

Anyone decided this fiasco was enough? No intention of renewing your order? I know some will buy and flip, but what about not buying at all?

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[SeaGeo]

I'm not maintaining the R1S pre-order we had for my wife.

 

[kizamybute']

At this point, while I'm still baffled that somehow, Rivian believed they could do what they did without any major consequences and that their executives were not intelligent enough to realize what they would be, I do respect them for very quickly reversing course. The fact that it happened though, does give me pause and makes me wonder what could be next. I'm hoping it was just a mistake and they actually LEARN from it and don't try to pull this crap again. In the meantime, they've offered me my reservation back without having to put a deposit down, so have nothing to lose. Will take the reservation back and over the next few months, see what happens before determining whether to convert it to an actual order, whenever that time comes. While the pre-order holders can get their vehicles at original pricing, I do worry that their new price points are too high for new customers. A 5% increase would be reasonable, based on how it compares to other options available or soon to be available. I think Rivian is going to have to back down the prices a bit to entice new customers. I hope they succeed and they have plenty of orders to get them through 2023 and into 2024. But, for them to succeed, they have to offer a competitive product at a competitive price point. The new price point, as we all so clearly demonstrated over the past two days, is too high for what you're getting.

Mostly, I'm thankful for the Rivian community (customers) for standing up and making their voices heard so loud and clear, which actually made a big difference. So thank you to all.

 

[Cavalryscout18]

Isn’t your preorder actually worth thousands of dollars now? I mean, if you have a preorder from March 1, 2022, your truck/suv is worth $14,000 less than those who ordered on March 2, 2022. There are a lot of ways to make some cold hard cash from that.

 

[kizamybute']

Isn’t your preorder actually worth thousands of dollars now? I mean, if you have a preorder from March 1, 2022, your truck/suv is worth $14,000 less than those who ordered on March 2, 2022. There are a lot of ways to make some cold hard cash from that.

It's only worth $14,000 more if new buyers see the value at $14,000 more. Based on the fact that many diehard Rivian fans that have been waiting for 2-3 years jumped ship at a price tag $14,000 more (or higher), indicates to me that even the most diehard fans didn't believe it to be worth that much. As noted, I think they need to back it down a bit as it's a tough sell at $90K+.

There will be a few that could make a quick buck, but considering you have to pay sales tax and cover that, and the fact that it will technically be a "used" vehicle, the "profit" margin won't be nearly that high for most. There are some people very eager to get one that will pay $10K over, pre-order pricing.

I had made an offer to buy a reservation for an earlier delivery date. Had hardly no responses in the two months since. In the past two days, after the price increase, I had 4 private messages of people wanting to sell me their reservations! They probably don't want to sell them today. But that $14,000+ price hike sure changed people's mind. The good thing about it is, it gave a good idea of the true value. It's more than pre-order pricing, but not as much as today's pricing.

 

[mgc0216]

It's only worth $14,000 more if new buyers see the value at $14,000 more. Based on the fact that many diehard Rivian fans that have been waiting for 2-3 years jumped ship at a price tag $14,000 more (or higher), indicates to me that even the most diehard fans didn't believe it to be worth that much. As noted, I think they need to back it down a bit as it's a tough sell at $90K+.

I think you're misreading it - there were certainly people who were stretching to hit $75k but a lot of folks were saying "I could afford it, but f them and their bs" . I was in that camp, I could have easily afforded an additional $13k - but I was ready to walk because I didn't want to support a company that was so egregiously anti-customer.

Rivian has sold folks on their vehicles but also on their ethos, the combination of the price hike and the disillusionment of how it was done was what drove many folks to cancel.

 

[kizamybute']

I think you're misreading it - there were certainly people who were stretching to hit $75k but a lot of folks were saying "I could afford it, but f them and their bs" . I was in that camp, I could have easily afforded an additional $13k - but I was ready to walk because I didn't want to support a company that was so egregiously anti-customer.

Rivian has sold folks on their vehicles but also on their ethos, the combination of the price hike and the disillusionment of how it was done was what drove many folks to cancel.

I agree with you. I was in both camps. Both pissed off. And while I too could afford it, it no longer had value to me at that price point.

I've posted elsewhere that I was on the fence between the F-150 Lightning and the Rivian. Ford has already taken my order at $78,000 for a Lariat, due in June and price locked. My Rivian was priced about the same. They are different trucks no doubt, which made the decision tougher. I personally prefer the size of the Rivian and the off-road oriented styling. On the flip side, I don't love (or even like) the front end styling. Never have and it hasn't grown on me. The Ford looks like every other F-150, so nothing special there.

I have been in Tesla's for years now. Rivian's UI is mostly a knock-off of Tesla's UI, yet UI from 6 years ago. Thus, will be step back in time for me. While the gear tunnel is cool, it's too narrow to provide that much usefulness, especially considering that we now have Frunks for lockable storage space. I would much rather have the rear seat leg room the F-150 offers and Rivian could have offered without the gear tunnel. Personal opinions of course, but are of course decisions I have to make for myself before deciding which to buy. My other disappointment with Rivian is that the 110 outlets are only capable of 1500 watts, combined total, compared with Ford at 9,600. A BIG difference. I also love the concept of being able to power my home for 3 days with the Ford. Rivian wins big by having air suspension, but loses in the interior storage space, the Ford has a huge center console, two glove boxes and a cool flip work space with real cup holders. Rivian has a small center console, two tiny flip out trays under seats with no glove box. I'm not a fan, from experience with a Model 3, of having all the controls from the center screen. I prefer the user friendliness of a few physical buttons for things we use all the time. Ford, I know will be able to service my vehicle and parts will be available. Learning from Tesla, insurance costs are higher, repair costs are higher and time to get repairs done can take forever. Fords frunk is better. I love the power tailgate that Rivian was supposed to have, but removed it. Ford has it. The "tank turn" feature was a cool party trick that added value, but that's gone too.

Two different trucks, both with positives and negatives. Aside from being 4 door trucks that are EV's, have very different capabilities. EV is a must for me. Ford seems to have the better driver assistance at this time with true hands free driving. There are sacrifices to be made with the Rivian. At $78,000, maybe worth it. At $95,000, absolutely not. I'd take the Ford all day for $78K instead. And it saves me from having to buy expensive home backup batteries when I do go solar at home. With the price change, I no longer had a decision to make. With the about-face by Rivian, I'm now back in the same dilemma of having to choose which overall will satisfy me for a couple to three years before more advanced EV trucks / SUV's come available, including Ford which is working on a new, ground up EV F-150. The Silverado looks appealing. I still like the Hummer and would rather have it for $102,000 over the Rivian at $95K. That was my point in the original post. At the new price point, Rivian loses the value proposition to other offerings and will be off the table for many. I would have been one of them. At that price point, or close to, there are other vehicles I'd prefer. Guess I have till June to decide. If Rivian hasn't converted my reservation to an order by then, I'll take the Ford. At least with the change, Rivian put itself back in the game for myself, and clearly many, many others. They have 3-4 months to show what they're really made of. This fiasco, only added more doubt. The Ford is probably the safer bet. We'll see how many new reservations Rivian adds by the next quarter at the new price point. That will help determine if enough see the value in a Rivian at roughly 20% more than it was marketed it for 3 years.

Having learned from Tesla, which had AMAZING customer service when they started, that has since declined drastically, combined with Tesla's ego, adopting the "our way or no way" attitude and making some pretty astronomical changes without notice, I'm not sure I'm ready to go on that ride again. Was hoping that Rivian would be like Tesla was in the beginning and at least get a good couple of years out of it. But, Rivian has clearly followed the playbook and is choosing to skip ahead. This was evidenced by the promised lower IPO pricing that kept getting jacked up (look where it is now). Lack of communication. To their credit, at least you can still call them, whereas Tesla is like trying to reach the President. Might be ready for the more predictable environment you know you get with a big manufacturer again. Ordered the Ford in May, will be here within 13 months. Ordered the Rivian in 2018, pushing 4 years!!!. Silverado will be here before Rivian's now cheaper model is available. This move reminded me of all the things Tesla has done to piss people off. So rarely ever hear of things like this from a big company. I know the Ford will be current for at least two years. If Rivian is like Tesla, they could make hardware changes at any given moment that would make current trucks quickly outdated mid-year. Again, a lot to consider.

 

[Larry]

Probably not uncanceling. Not out of bitterness or anything like that though I do question the long term viability of Rivian as a company.

The whole episode made me put some more thought into my Silverado EV order. Yes it’s more $ but it’s also more range, faster charging, Supercruise and local service.

 

[Max]

Calculus for a new buyer may not be the same as ours. If they cross shop R1S with Lexus 600 LX. ($88K-$120K+), it does not seem as bad. The difference is that with Lexus, you know you will be driving it with minimal drama 15 years from now. With R1S, you may not even be able to get parts.

side note, I was thinking if Rivian does not have contract for fixed price parts for 70,000 vehicles, with the email R.J. Just sent out. Suppliers, especially the one’s Rivian can not replace, may squeeze hard.

Edit: I will get back on the list since there is no down side but I am much more open to alternatives between now and delivery.

 

[Guy]

I'm not maintaining the R1S pre-order we had for my wife.

Sorry to hear that Seageo. Any particular reason to keep one and cancel the other?

 

[SeaGeo]

Sorry to hear that Seageo. Any particular reason to keep one and cancel the other?

Managing the risk of having both our cars with a startup with a lot of future uncertainty. We were worried about it before, so this was just confirmation.

Ie: if the reliability ends up being poor, or the company fails how well would two computers on wheels that are heavily reliant on phoning home work? How do you get it serviced? Etc.

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