Why Tesla has delayed CarPlay implementation

[skyguyscott]

According to this article, evidently, Apple Maps and Tesla navigation don't always agree, Tesla asked Apple to modify Maps, Apple did, but slow adoption in wild.

I think it's obvious that Rivian tends to follow whatever Tesla does, for better or worse, but I would be surprised if RJ ever agrees to make a space for CarPlay.

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[VSG]

I think it's obvious that Rivian tends to follow whatever Tesla does, for better or worse

That's a ridiculous statement.

 

[skyguyscott]

That's a ridiculous statement.

Well, beyond the obvious surface similarities of vertical integration strategies, launching it's own insurance program, leading with premium products before developing mass market vehicles, choosing to develop it's own silicon and software in house, utilizing similar direct selling strategies with its "Spaces", developing and deploying it's own charging network rather than relying on third parties, and so on, there are interesting details in design and user interface choices such as heavy use of screen driven controls, even including the HVAC vent position, and leaning into autonomous driving strategies.

To be sure, Rivian is not, nor trying to copy Tesla, but
Rivian is certainly influenced, perhaps in some cases inspired by Tesla. How many times has Tesla introduced a feature that Rivian later also features?

Their brand strategies differ in many ways, as do the vehicles themselves, but if you look at the larger picture, there are as many similarities as differences. It's almost like if Tesla says "We can do this thing!" Rivian says, "We can do that too, but slightly differently, or better, or in a way that will be better eventually!" Because Choice!

 

[Great Gatsby]

Well, beyond the obvious surface similarities of vertical integration strategies, launching it's own insurance program, leading with premium products before developing mass market vehicles, choosing to develop it's own silicon and software in house, utilizing similar direct selling strategies with its "Spaces", developing and deploying it's own charging network rather than relying on third parties, and so on, there are interesting details in design and user interface choices such as heavy use of screen driven controls, even including the HVAC vent position, and leaning into autonomous driving strategies.

To be sure, Rivian is not, nor trying to copy Tesla, but
Rivian is certainly influenced, perhaps in some cases inspired by Tesla. How many times has Tesla introduced a feature that Rivian later also features?

Their brand strategies differ in many ways, as do the vehicles themselves, but if you look at the larger picture, there are as many similarities as differences. It's almost like if Tesla says "We can do this thing!" Rivian says, "We can do that too, but slightly differently, or better, or in a way that will be better eventually!" Because Choice!

Yeah I didn't think it would require a keen eye to realize Rivian is very much looking over Tesla's shoulder. It'd be hard to argue otherwise, if anything. Hard to blame them either. Tesla left the footprint for how to be a successful EV startup. They are also leaving the footprint on how to fumble a huge lead, so hopefully Rivian doesn't follow the path too closely.

But yes, if Tesla does develop Carplay in some form, I can't imagine Rivian being the only holdout. I don't care for Carplay, and clearly nor does RJ, but if this means a sales boost, they may just cave for survival. Interested to see how Tesla ends up implementing it though.

 

[Hereforthesnacks]

That's a ridiculous statement.

Eh? They have the exact same playbook lol.

Not saying Rivian will follow Tesla right down to the available software, but come on…

 

[VSG]

No, it's ridiculous to claim Rivian is just copying Tesla.

Everything you mention is superficial. They have four wheels, they're electric vehicles, they must be the same! By that criteria then Musk is just copying Henry Ford (in more ways than one) and Tesla just copied the EV-1 (or we could go back even further: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_electric_vehicle)

The narrative that Rivian is simply a Tesla wannabe is often used to devalue Rivian as a company and disparage the people who work there. If they do something "right", they get no credit because they're just copying Tesla, if they do something "wrong" (defined as different than what Tesla did) they get blamed because they didn't copy Tesla closely enough. Calling them a copy of Tesla trivializes what they have done - how many brand new car companies have been launched and been successful in the past 50 years? It's an almost impossible task. If all it took was to just follow Tesla, then Fisker would still be around. Bollinger would still be around. Lordstown, Faraday Future, Canoo, Nikola. Even the big 3 are struggling with EVs, and the have the infrastructure, capital, and experience to compete with Tesla - did they all fail just because they didn't copy Tesla?

If you want to press the point, Tesla is copying *Rivian* in many ways - Tesla never felt the need to develop a pickup truck until Rivian did it, for example. Then they decided to make a better one that was half the price, had twice the range, and was released earlier than the R1T (Whoops, that was the plan at least. How did that plan work out for them?). Maybe if Tesla had chosen to copy Rivian more closely, it would have ended up better for them.

Did Tesla copy Waymo? If so, isn't Rivian then *also* copying Waymo (not Tesla) when it comes to autonomy? Or maybe Rivian is just taking its own approach, while learning from the successes and failures of others?

Every company in every field learns from others, especially from successful others. And improvements in every type of product build on previous improvements. All new cars have a great deal of similarity - the differences are small comparitively, just like the difference between humans and chimps are less than 5% of their DNA.

Is Apple just a copy of Xerox? Superficially, initially, yes, that's what everyone said at the time. If you look deeper, not at all. Apple flat out stole the mouse and GUI from Xerox's products. Nowadays every computer has a mouse and a GUI. Or a touchscreen, which Apple didn't invent either. So did everyone copy Apple, or did everyone copy Xerox, or is this all part of synergistic development in the product space?

If Rivian wanted to simply follow in Tesla's footsteps, then how do you explain the EDV (currently maybe 25% of the company)? How do you explain the R1T and R1S as the first vehicles instead of a sports car or a sedan? How do you explain Rivian deliberately staying away from autonomy for the first 5 years of production, when Tesla has been all-in? (yes deliberately - there never would have been an IPO if they tried to both create a new car company AND create an autonomous vehicle company at the same time - as laid out in the investor documents back in 2020). These are very deliberate choices that Rivian took which are not at all similar to what Tesla has done or has been doing. And yes every car company is now working on some level of autonomy, that doesn't mean that every car company is copying Tesla.

BTW, I worked on autonomous vehicles for a while before Tesla even existed. Did Tesla copy ME? Superficially, it sure sounds like it ...

 

[skyguyscott]

I don’t think Rivian is copying Tesla, that is pretty obvious. I do think Rivian is following Tesla. As you point out Fisker et. al. in no way as obvious as the way Rivian is proceeding, follow the same path that Tesla first trod.

Likewise, I agree Rivian deserves much credit for its creativity and engineering, design, and marketing. It differentiates itself from Tesla in ways far more obvious and substantial than say, android distinguishes itself from Apple‘s iOS. (But not as much as "Family Guy" distinguishes itself from "The Simpsons")

Still, I don’t believe I would win a debate if I were to argue that Rivian in no way, manifestation, or strategy, resembles Tesla or is not taking a route that in recognizable ways is the road map that Tesla has established.

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