Video: R2 Owner demonstrating a charging session at a Tesla SC

[SANZC02]

For the few road trips a vast majority of people take the 800V discussion is kind of pointless. I’ve had an Ioniq 5 since 2022. 800V vehicle and I can tell you given the infrastructure that I’ve had to deal with on road trips, it has not helped. Things are improving, but I don’t see much changing for the next few years.
Look at Out of Spec’s last East Coast race. The only 800V vehicle that did well were the Gravities.

Curious what infrastructure issues you have had recently on road trips.

I road trip frequently and I have not had any real issues. My latest road trip,I finished last week had 59 charge sessions, only charger I had to wait 10 minutes for was at a Tesla charger in Westlake Cliff, NJ. 3 times I had to move to a different stall as the session would not start, 1 was an EA, 1 was a Tesla V4, and the other a Tesla V3.

I did get my share of charging limited by station (or whatever the wording was) but rarely was I charging past 65% so the delivered rate was fine. More often than not the vehicle was ready to go before I was.

I have also found that more of the Tesla stations lately are better lined up in the stalls so we are not blocking stalls with the R1S. That does not seem to be much of an issue outside of CA anyways where most of the stations I stopped at had plenty of open stalls.

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[Jeremy3292]

Curious what infrastructure issues you have had recently on road trips.

I road trip frequently and I have not had any real issues. My latest road trip,I finished last week had 59 charge sessions, only charger I had to wait 10 minutes for was at a Tesla charger in Westlake Cliff, NJ. 3 times I had to move to a different stall as the session would not start, 1 was an EA, 1 was a Tesla V4, and the other a Tesla V3.

I did get my share of charging limited by station (or whatever the wording was) but rarely was I charging past 65% so the delivered rate was fine. More often than not the vehicle was ready to go before I was.

I have also found that more of the Tesla stations lately are better lined up in the stalls so we are not blocking stalls with the R1S. That does not seem to be much of an issue outside of CA anyways where most of the stations I stopped at had plenty of open stalls.

I took the comments as speaking about 800v infrastructure, not the ability to charge in general. Pointing out that the 800v cars in OOS road trip challenge didn't beat out their 400v counterparts bc of the lack of ubiquitous 800v charging infrastructure today. The thing about 800v cars is they only charge faster if on an 800v capable charger, which again are limited throughout the USA. Otherwise most charge under 120 kW to deal with the mismatched voltage - which means they are actually slower than an R2 or Model 3/Y.

Some newer more expensive cars like BMW iX3 have split pack architecture that can still charge at 200 kW on 400v stations. But that just keeps them on par with R2 and Model 3/Y, not better. The fact that BMW put the extra split pack cost (which isn't cheap) into the iX3 shows they know most people are still plugging into 400v chargers. Joe Q Public doesn't know that Tesla superchargers don't support 800v (except the very few V4 cabinets around).

800v is clearly the future, Tesla is now doing 800v superchargers, it just takes time to build out and become the norm.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Well I mean I agree with that, but that’s not reality. 400v is reality in the USA today and for the next few years at least. Is what it is. Charging infrastructure is a few years away and I have no doubt next gen R1 and R2 will be 800v.

Pretty much anywhere I stop with my Sierra has been 800V, with Tesla being the most notable exception. And I wouldn't have stopped there if there were reasonable alternatives. 150kW at 400V is still faster than 50kW at 800V.

Rivian stations have all been happy to push 300kW into my Sierra for extended periods of time.

 

[Utah-Jay]

Interesting comments.

I will charge 99.9% of the time at home so many of the complaints are moot for me. I suspect most are like me

 

[mkennedy009]

did anyone else see the muddy dirt under the charge door. Is that flowing right into the charge port? Is that going to grease the connectors? I am thinking this is right for a 3d printed cap.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

No setup for payment? Is that using Tesla's plug-and-charge, perhaps charging whatever card Rivian has on file?

Plug-and-charge at any Tesla Supercharger that Tesla has opened to other "NACS Partner" OEMs (not all locations are open to non-Teslas)... provided you have a valid payment source associated with your Rivian account. And, as long as the backend communication between Tesla and Rivian is working as intended.

Be aware Tesla charges non-Tesla a higher per kWh price. If you plan on using more than 100~150 kWh per month at Supercharger, you should enroll in their $12.99 pre-tax membership in order to pay 20~25% less. 100~150 kWh is the break even point on that subscription fee (which is less than 2 full sessions for each 30-day membership period). You can cancel your membership at anytime if you no longer need it. Each membership payment is good for 30 days and renewals are automatic until canceled. Once enrolled, you must initiate each session through Tesla's app before plugging in. Plug-and-charge currently does not check for membership status. So, if you plug-and-charge, you will default yourself to the higher price.

Tesla's FAQ for non-Teslas: https://www.tesla.com/support/charging/supercharging-other-evs

 

[justinkitswa]

On average, people DCFC 10 times a year (according to RJ)

Statements like these reflect how disconnected leadership at Rivian is from the world around them.

I don't think they understand that by saying "most people only fast charge 10 times a year" basically states that the time domain problem with DC fast charging isn't worth solving, since so few people use/need it. If that were true, why invest so heavily in Rivian DCFC?

Perception. If I perceive there to be lots of quick options for charging my EV on the road, I will be more inclined to buy one. When I actually take said EV on the road and find each charging stop takes an hour to complete, who cares? The books are closed on the sale and I learn to live with the problem.

It also states essentially that people who want an EV for road trips/longer drives are the boundary case and a problem not worth solving. I don't remember where I read it but I recall a pro-EV article saying people should just rent ICE vehicles for road trips - I mean, come on, really, that's the argument?

Rivian is cutting edge on lots of things, overall charging experience not being one of them.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Statements like these reflect how disconnected leadership at Rivian is from the world around them.

There is certainly a bit of that industry-wide and even among EV owners. If the industry wants to see wider EV adoption, EV ownership and EV charging shouldn't be tied to home ownership status... especially now that many folks have been priced out of it. The status quo notion between the two is becoming an outdated one.

And even before real estate values surged, a visit to any Tesla Supercharger here in SoCal alone would inform you that many home owners are not able to charge at home and not all Supercharger patrons are roadtrippers but are in fact local residents.

 

[BCondrey]

Statements like these reflect how disconnected leadership at Rivian is from the world around them.

I don't think they understand that by saying "most people only fast charge 10 times a year" basically states that the time domain problem with DC fast charging isn't worth solving, since so few people use/need it. If that were true, why invest so heavily in Rivian DCFC?

Perception. If I perceive there to be lots of quick options for charging my EV on the road, I will be more inclined to buy one. When I actually take said EV on the road and find each charging stop takes an hour to complete, who cares? The books are closed on the sale and I learn to live with the problem.

It also states essentially that people who want an EV for road trips/longer drives are the boundary case and a problem not worth solving. I don't remember where I read it but I recall a pro-EV article saying people should just rent ICE vehicles for road trips - I mean, come on, really, that's the argument?

Rivian is cutting edge on lots of things, overall charging experience not being one of them.

He is replying based on telematics / analytics his company collects. In the context of when he said it, it was about the value equation of lowering the time to DCFC vs the cost involved for the R2, and the population that would actually value it based on the averages. I would not want to pay another $2K or any amount to charge quicker at DCFC. Improving charging performance in small increments when 90% of the public doesn't understand DCFC makes no sense. For the 10% that does understand and needs the best DCFC performance, well, Rivian may not be for them. Just not something to solve for when your ultimate goal is creating a mass-market SUV to sell to many many people.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Yeah, that's why Teslas are obsolete and don't sell.

EXCEPT the CyberTruck.

That's why the sales of the Cybertruck are off the charts.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

Interesting comments.

I will charge 99.9% of the time at home so many of the complaints are moot for me. I suspect most are like me

If it can't charge in 2-5min then 30min or more is perfectly fine by me. I'll just eat lunch if its 30+ minutes.

So I don't really understand the obsession with slightly faster charging speeds.

 

[DuoRivians]

Statements like these reflect how disconnected leadership at Rivian is from the world around them.

I don't think they understand that by saying "most people only fast charge 10 times a year" basically states that the time domain problem with DC fast charging isn't worth solving, since so few people use/need it. If that were true, why invest so heavily in Rivian DCFC?

Perception. If I perceive there to be lots of quick options for charging my EV on the road, I will be more inclined to buy one. When I actually take said EV on the road and find each charging stop takes an hour to complete, who cares? The books are closed on the sale and I learn to live with the problem.

It also states essentially that people who want an EV for road trips/longer drives are the boundary case and a problem not worth solving. I don't remember where I read it but I recall a pro-EV article saying people should just rent ICE vehicles for road trips - I mean, come on, really, that's the argument?

Rivian is cutting edge on lots of things, overall charging experience not being one of them.

Exactly. EVs should be capped at 50kw max then. I mean, DCFC is so few in occurrences, why invest in it at all?!

Ultimately, people want flexibility and freedom to travel when and how they want, without feeling need to work around charging stops. Once EVs can charge fully in 9 minutes (like BYDs can), no one is going to want to revert back to “slow” fast charging speeds.

 

[southerncadesi]

OP didn’t hit the prepare battery for fast charging prior to DCFC and he only drove 4mi prior so the battery was likely not warm enough to go faster than 183kW.

 

[justinkitswa]

Charging is mostly about logistics... How far apart are the chargers on the route? Are they full? What's the wait time? Are they all operational? What brand/network are they? What cable to they have? What adapter do I need? Are there facilities close by? Is there a trash can/dumpster to offload the 40 Starbucks cups I always seem to have tumbling around?

The built in nav does a good job figuring out when and where to stop and charge based on the things it knows, like SOC, temperature, etc.

It has no freaking clue about the other things - like do I really want to drive 15 minutes across Anderson CA to get to the Tesla supercharger? Or is my bladder so full I will risk death and arrest by relieving myself behind the pad mount transformer because there isn't a bathroom anywhere near the charging station I was routed to.

When you add in the additional time element of charging, it adds up. Case in point, I never charge beyond 80% when fast charging, and yes I know that it's better for battery health but the true reason I don't do it (even on the Tesla I leased for my job and don't give two shits about the battery on) - is that it takes a solid 30 extra minutes to top it off...

I figure the logistics of finding another charger relatively soon once I get back on the road aren't worth the time to charge to 100%.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

If it can't charge in 2-5min then 30min or more is perfectly fine by me. I'll just eat lunch if its 30+ minutes.

So I don't really understand the obsession with slightly faster charging speeds.

Same reason I'm baffled by the "800V or nothing" crowd. No 800V-based car available in the US that can charge that fast. Faster, yes, but not much faster than 400V cars. And the DCFC that can deliver 5 minute charging is even more uncommon. Those who don't read/think past the hot take headlines...

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