Explore Package R1T and R1S No Longer Available

[sk00pie]

Reservation canceled. Will be a day 1 / minute 1 R2 reservation holder if cheaper.

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[sevengroove]

If you had a pre-March 1 order that could come back to bite you. R1 pricing has gone up and will likely continue. The higher that goes, the higher they can justify pricing R2. With Dual Motor and Standard Pack, should still expect to shell out $60k+ on an R2. Want more range and more performance? Expect to pay $15k on top of that. You could end up paying the same amount for less vehicle.

Post-March 1 Order? Yeah, maybe wait.

100% this.

I imagine a big part of the decision was the realization that higher R2 trim pricing would likely veer into R1 Explore trim pricing, so they likely wanted to create more of a distinction between the two.

 

[BigSkies]

Complete speculation here, but my guess is they'll keep everything Quad Motor/Adventure through 2023 at least. It will keep the margins up and the production complexity down.

Once they hit enough sales volume with this configuration, I'd guess they'll figure out a way to get a lower priced version out the door. This might be a combined dual-motor/Explore type configuration in 2024 or 2025. That would still keep the amount of configurations down.

I'm sure this is something Rivian hasn't made any decisions on yet, so who knows how it will actually turn out. But I think everyone is coming to the realization that Rivian offered way too many configurations to be practical to manufacture.

 

[ewcanes]

Disappointed as an Explore and Dual Motor reservation holder, but I'm going to keep my options open for now.

I kept my reservation with Dual Motor and dropped down to Standard Range pack, so delivery still expected in 2024, all the other options the same and my price only increased $1000.

Since they changed the wood on the OC interior too, and it's not the non-wood black it was before on the Explore package (that I preferred), I may just switch to Black Mountain eventually as well for a net decrease of $1000, so I'd really just be losing out on the extra range of the Max Pack, which is doable for me.

I've got a Blazer EV reservation too, so I guess I'll see how much I like that car and make the decision whether the R1T is worth it or not.

 

[Jac]

Got the email. Had to upgrade to the Adventure pkg even though there is little in it that appeals to me, at least for the $$$. I had to drop a few add ons and change my color preference to white, just to keep the price below $80K. Adding any additional item or a color change will cost me the price of that item + $7500 (tax credit) ? I suppose, if I choose, I could purchase things like crossbars, etc. separately from the vehicle purchase, but who knows when I would ever get them. I now have very, very little wiggle room, if there is another price hike.

I take it you are assuming the binding purchase agreement you signed last week won’t be accepted to qualify for the $7500 tax credit under the old law - the law that had no MSRP or income caps or battery mineral/component source requirements to qualify for the EV tax credit?

Update: while I was typing another forum member already made this point and you acknowledged it. Sorry.

 

[Singletracker]

Optimistic way to look at it is your delivery date is moving up and you'll definitely get a Rivian. Ultimately, it likely won't end up costing you much of anything, because it will also be worth more (perhaps additional interest). Price does not equal cost, unless you plan to be buried in it.

Not too concerned about the delivery date. However, the differential between my pre-3/1/22 price and the current list price has now jumped up to almost $20K. That’s frickin’ nuts. Looking ahead to 2024 (most likely delivery date), considering what has transpired in the last 4-5 months, I can’t help but wonder what sorts of surprises and/or price hikes lay ahead.

 

[kylealden]

Reservation canceled. Will be a day 1 / minute 1 R2 reservation holder if cheaper.

I won't criticize anyone for your decisions, but IMO if there's one lesson for the whole March price debacle, it's not to cancel anything unless and until you absolutely need the deposit money back and/or are being forced into a binding decision.

I've been kicking myself for never putting in that "just in case" second R1 reservation (for an R1S or even Max Pack) for six months now ?

 

[Singletracker]

I take it you are assuming the binding purchase agreement you signed last week won’t be accepted to qualify for the $7500 tax credit under the old law - the law that had no MSRP or income caps or battery mineral/component source requirements to qualify for the EV tax credit?

Actually, as noted in a previous post, I had forgotten about the BPA. So, as long as it holds up, I should be okay on the tax credit.

 

[DJG]

Not too concerned about the delivery date. However, the differential between my pre-3/1/22 price and the current list price has now jumped up to almost $20K. That’s frickin’ nuts. Looking ahead to 2024 (most likely delivery date), considering what has transpired in the last 4-5 months, I can’t help but wonder what sorts of surprises and/or price hikes lay ahead.

This change considerably improves odds you take delivery this year (from zero to possible), in which case you don't have to worry about IRS interpretation of the contracts signed last week, which is valuable.

 

[Sully151]

Here is what I think is happening.
They are cutting the Explore and dual motor versions of the R1’s because the price will be too close to the R2.

The R1 will only be a quad motor.

They have stock for the BM wood and demand for OC, so why not put them together to get OC trucks on the road, knowing the majority of OC reservations will be ok with this. Those who aren’t have the ability to wait.

So with these decisions, they streamline the builds and get more R1’s in the hands of owners.

I just hope they don’t get rid of Compass Yellow before my S shows up?

 

[idea man]

That's an interesting take, what's the basis for that??? Seems like culling the herd (particularly the low end of the price spectrum) wouldn't be the smart move if that were true. All signs point to demand continuing to outpace supply, as evidenced by the fact that their net orders are growing, meaning they are coming in faster than they are going out.

I could be totally wrong. But the concept behind that hypothesis is that they are stopping the availability of the lesser contented (easier) build in favor of the one that has more candidates. More candidates means more potential purchasers. To your point, this essentially increasing the demand of their one remaining trim build (now that the LE's have all been allocated). But they are "only" churning out 25,000 units this year and I've seen where there are those that are skeptical of Rivian meeting that number, maybe they will. But why are they trying to increase the demand, if the supply is going to be finite? Is it because not everyone who has put down their $1000 is stepping forward with their checkbook when the truck is made available to them? Everyone on here probably jumps at the first truck that gets offered to them because we are all true believers.
But we are not all or probably even half of those who put money down.
All the other reasons for discontinuing the less sophisticated build could also be true too. Simpler supply line, more profit margin, de facto price increase, lack of fancy wood availability, etc.
Me? I just want an electric truck with a 400 mile range. It could have only one flat panel screen on the dash, hand-crank windows and an old-fashioned metal roof for all I care.

 

[Singletracker]

This change considerably improves odds you take delivery this year (from zero to possible), in which case you don't have to worry about IRS interpretation of the contracts signed last week, which is valuable.

My preorder date was 2/26/22. Just snuck in under the wire. Can’t imagine nor do I want to delivery this year. 2024 is just fine with me.

 

[DJG]

I could be totally wrong. But the concept behind that hypothesis is that they are stopping the availability of the lesser contented (easier) build in favor of the one that has more candidates. More candidates means more potential purchasers. To your point, this essentially increasing the demand of their one remaining trim build (now that the LE's have all been allocated). But they are "only" churning out 25,000 units this year and I've seen where there are those that are skeptical of Rivian meeting that number, maybe they will. But why are they trying to increase the demand, if the supply is going to be finite? Is it because not everyone who has put down their $1000 is stepping forward with their checkbook when the truck is made available to them? Everyone on here probably jumps at the first truck that gets offered to them because we are all true believers.
But we are not all or probably even half of those who put money down.
All the other reasons for discontinuing the less sophisticated build could also be true too. Simpler supply line, more profit margin, de facto price increase, lack of fancy wood availability, etc.
Me? I just want an electric truck with a 400 mile range. It could have only one flat panel screen on the dash, hand-crank windows and an old-fashioned metal roof for all I care.

I think the data on net orders still clearly shows that demand is coming in faster than supply going out (that's literally what it shows). That demand (new orders) does nothing for them until they can convert to revenue. They want to increase supply, so that they can maximize revenue and push out as far as possible the date when they need to raise capital. Eliminating permutations, particularly lower priced ones, accomplishes that goal. This is not just about the rest of this year, it's about all of next year too (and maybe even 2024). The Explore trim may or may not be easier to build than Adventure, but it most certainly is harder to build both than either one individually. Objective numero uno is - when/how can we get Normal operating at full capacity (65k R1's and 85k vans)? That's what this is about.

Also, they made it clear that the Explore order base is extremely small, small enough that they didn't think twice about leaving it behind. I'm guessing it was less than 20%, if not 10%, vs. LE/Adventure.

 

[sk00pie]

I won't criticize anyone for your decisions, but IMO if there's one lesson for the whole March price debacle, it's not to cancel anything unless and until you absolutely need the deposit money back and/or are being forced into a binding decision.

I've been kicking myself for never putting in that "just in case" second R1 reservation (for an R1S or even Max Pack) for six months now ?

I feel you! July 22 reservation dual motor. Needed to take deleicery but 3/24 anyway so likely wouldn’t work. Model Y it is I guess sigh

 

[Riv240]

Gotta say I'm completely unsurprised by this. Remember when the Model 3 was announced with a "Premium" interior option (glass roof, vegan leather seats, premium sound, etc.) and the "future" basic option with cloth seats, metal roof, etc... which never materialized?

Tesla/Rivian have:

1. No dealer network, so no notion of "dealer-installed" options (a huge part of optioning in traditional vehicles)
2. Vastly more demand than manufacturing capacity, so no incentive to try to capture small incremental gains through SKU variety
3. Relatively price-insensitive customers, requiring significant price differentiation to justify any shift in features
4. Absolutely existential needs to scale manufacturing; SKU complexity is the mortal enemy of scale

These combine to make today's announcements inevitable. A few thousand dollars is not enough for the overwhelming majority of Rivian customers to give up on the significant (place in line + quality) difference between Explore and Adventure. And without significant demand for both models, the hit to Rivian's manufacturing efficiency and ability to scale way outweights any advantage they get from having a slightly cheaper offering.

It will be several years before Rivian should even think about significant SKU complexity outside of accessories. Honestly I'm a little worried even about the current state of affairs (multiple motors, multiple drivetrains, 4+ simultaneous body types). By next year their SKU complexity promises to be almost on par with Tesla's despite significantly lower volumes.

yep, they only had the 35k model 3 via special order (actually know someone who was able to nab one) for a brief period of time, at least they actually did sell some

Some day they can offer more sku's, should've thought of this beforehand instead of rushing into ipo? But with the reservation/price bump fiasco and then this, can't imagine it's helping their brand...

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