Explore Package R1T and R1S No Longer Available

[sacramentoelectric]

Don’t think so. Max pack makes them more money. Explore trim makes them less.

Edited to fix weight estimate

Possibly but the trend line is clear. Rivian has been consistently reducing the complexity of their lineup to meet their production target. Wall Street is far more concerned with Rivian's ability to scale than their margins. The Max Pack isn't just more cells. It will need a custom battery enclosure, BMS, suspension tuning to deal with the 550-600 lbs weight increase, and new crash testing all for a subset of orders for one of their two models. What percentage of R1T+R1S orders are Max Pack? 15%? Are they really going to risk slowing the line down for that when many of those order will likely take a large pack anyway?

Just this week during their quarterly earnings call, Rivian reconfirmed their 25k vehicle production target for the year. To get there, they're going to need to triple their production rate pronto. The pressure is on and I suspect they will keep trimming options to make sure they hit that magic 25k number. I really want a Max Pack but I just don't think we're going to see it until 2024 at the earliest when they move to their in house motors and inverters. If they aren't tracking to 25k by the next earnings call, I expect they'll announce a delay or cancelation before the end of the year. Max Pack will end up in the wouldn't that have been cool pile maybe we'll get to it someday with the electrochromatic roof, removable roof, powered tailgate, winch, and V2G. I hope I'm wrong because a +400mi range R1T would be awesome for road trips and overlanding.

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[AbhorViolence]

Rivian could have been the Subaru of BEV trucks by sticking with Quad Motors on every model they sell.

Interesting idea. The benefits of full 4 wheel control are big.

I wonder how practical it would be and how much cost savings from using 4 less powerful motors (maybe 100hp each) vs 4 of the current 200+ hp motors or 2 of the same, as I assume they plan on doing.

 

[bd5400]

Possibly but the trend line is clear. Rivian has been consistently reducing the complexity of their lineup to meet their production target....

Just this week during their quarterly earnings call, Rivian reconfirmed their 25k vehicle production target for the year. To get there, they're going to need to triple their production rate pronto. The pressure is on and I suspect they will keep trimming options to make sure they hit that magic 25k number....

I'm not an expert, but I don't really see how the max pack could have any bearing on them hitting 25k vehicles produced this year. They've already stated that max pack delivery will not start until 2023 so the max pack doesn't have the potential to interfere or slow down the line this year.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

I'm not an expert, but I don't really see how the max pack could have any bearing on them hitting 25k vehicles produced this year. They've already stated that max pack delivery will not start until 2023 so the max pack doesn't have the potential to interfere or slow down the line this year.

To hit a 1H23 delivery for Max Pack, they would need to build prototypes and test in 2022. All those engineering and test resources would probably be better spent on production efficiently, cost reduction, R2, and Dual Motor, IMHO. But maybe they finished the engineering a while ago and are just waiting on EPA. One can hope.

 

[kizamybute']

Becoming more and more like Tesla. Already started off following their playbook. Now following the later paths as well.

I remember the days when I ordered my first three Tesla's, being able to pick and choose my interior configurations, dark headliner, light seats, my choice of dash materials, sunroof, premium sound, etc, etc, etc. By the time I got my 2019, pretty much the only options were color and wheels. Spending this kind of money, should have the option to make it the way you want it. Porsche, Mercedes, BMW and most all the others, you can personalize the vehicles to your preferences. Now, Tesla, Rivian apparently headed the same direction, will basically give you what they give you. Right now, they have more demand than supply, so it won't change any time in the near future. But some day, supply will catch up with demand and competitors will come and buyers will start choosing what's most appealing to them, rather than one of the two vehicles available. At that point, we'll see Tesla and Rivian start to make more customer friendly changes.

Not a knock on the company. I'm happy with my Truck. Just saying, choices aren't a bad thing. In the meantime, I understand they need to simplify what they can to try and get trucks out the door.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/r...its-electric-pickup-11660874063?siteid=yhoof2
"According to an email from Rivian obtained by MarketWatch, the company is telling customers who pre-ordered the $67,500 Explore package they will need to either upgrade to the $73,000 Adventure package or cancel their pre-order."

Just read this article, have to say, this is disappointing to see. I already have my truck, I'm good. But feel for those that were stretching their budgets to get a Rivian. And hate the way this is put to customers. Very Tesla-like. Our way or the highway. Don't like it, kiss our ass and cancel. Not a good way to handle customers that have been waiting for years and years and years.

Part of the reason I left Tesla after 9 years with them is because their heads grew too big and they had too cocky of an attitude. Sadly, I'm seeing the same signs from Rivian. Obviously, a TON of people cancelled their orders over the price increase and they reversed course. Tesla never wanted to build a $39,000 Model 3, but to their credit, they did, at least for a very short period of time to make good on their word.

Again, feel bad for those customers. I hope they don't go full-blown Tesla, otherwise my experience as a Rivian owner could be short-lived. The whole thing that came up with the price increase was about keeping customer's trust. This just reneged on that theory. All the customers who trusted that Rivian would build them the truck they ordered sometime in the future, just shot down the drain. What's next? 90% of customers would have upgraded to get their trucks sooner if given the option. They could have built the remaining few at a couple more dollar loss to show good will and more importantly, continue to restore trust from customers after the price increase fiasco.

I've always been one that believes in "Do what you say you will or don't say it".

 

[AbhorViolence]

Possibly but the trend line is clear. Rivian has been consistently reducing the complexity of their lineup to meet their production target. Wall Street is far more concerned with Rivian's ability to scale than their margins. The Max Pack isn't just more cells. It will need a custom battery enclosure, BMS, suspension tuning to deal with the >1k lbs weight increase, possibly new brakes, and new crash testing all for a subset of orders for one of their two models. What percentage of R1T+R1S orders are Max Pack? 15%? Are they really going to risk slowing the line down for that when many of those order will likely take a large pack anyway?

Just this week during their quarterly earnings call, Rivian reconfirmed their 25k vehicle production target for the year. To get there, they're going to need to triple their production rate pronto. The pressure is on and I suspect they will keep trimming options to make sure they hit that magic 25k number. I really want a Max Pack but I just don't think we're going to see it until 2024 at the earliest when they move to their in house motors and inverters. If they aren't tracking to 25k by the next earnings call, I expect they'll announce a delay or cancelation before the end of the year. Max Pack will end up in the wouldn't that have been cool pile maybe we'll get to it someday with the electrochromatic roof, removable roof, powered tailgate, winch, and V2G. I hope I'm wrong because a +400mi range R1T would be awesome for road trips and overlanding.

Where are you getting this 1000 lb weight increase from?

I remember calculating it would be something like 300 or a little more, at some point. Still not insignificant but certainly not requiring upgraded brakes, suspension, or anything like that. Just like having a couple passengers in the vehicle. This truck had a decent payload, remember.

 

[sacramentoelectric]

Where are you getting this 1000 lb weight increase from?

I remember calculating it would be something like 300 or a little more, at some point. Still not insignificant but certainly not requiring upgraded brakes, suspension, or anything like that. Just like having a couple passengers in the vehicle. This truck had a decent payload, remember.

You’re right, 1000lbs is high. Should be about 550-600 lbs heavier. The 135kWh pack is 1750lbs which should make the 180kWr(if that’s final) around 2334lbs.

 

[AbhorViolence]

You’re right, 1000lbs is high. Should be about 550-600 lbs heavier. The 135kWh pack is 1750lbs which should make the 180kWr(if that’s final) around 2334lbs.

Ah, thanks, you're right! Should be around +585 lbs if it's 180kwh.

I'd really like to know any more info about the bigger battery. Like will the truck actually perform a little better because of more power available? Or will that be negated or even lessened slightly because of the extra weight? How big will it be exactly? All these questions.. Hopefully we will find out some information by end of the year. And hopefully not that it's being canceled!

 

[sacramentoelectric]

You’re right, 1000lbs is high. Should be about 550-600 lbs heavier. The 135kWh pack is 1750lbs which should make the 180kWr(if that’s final) around 2334lbs.

Where are you getting this 1000 lb weight increase from?

I remember calculating it would be something like 300 or a little more, at some point. Still not insignificant but certainly not requiring upgraded brakes, suspension, or anything like that. Just like having a couple passengers in the vehicle. This truck had a decent payload, remember.

Speaking of payload, an R1T with the off road package has a payload rating of 1,470lbs. I’m not sure if that even includes the spare. Add on +500lbs of battery for the Max Pack and suddenly you’re looking at a sub 1k payload unless something else changes. That’s less than a Tacoma. I don’t see Rivian releasing R1T with such a low payload, do you? I hope not.

 

[AbhorViolence]

Speaking of payload, an R1T with the off road package has a payload rating of 1,470lbs. I’m not sure if that even includes the spare. Add on +500lbs of battery for the Max Pack and suddenly you’re looking at a sub 1k payload unless something else changes. That’s less than a Tacoma. I don’t see Rivian releasing R1T with such a low payload, do you? I hope not.

Yes these are all very good questions! I imagine they'll do it in such a way that it won't affect payload much if at all. Agree if it drops to undo 1000 lbs that's a no go. Heck my 24 year old v6 Tacoma can haul 1600 lbs! (Actually slightly more than the Rivian's rating which I find funny.) Until we get some info from Rivian or maybe some kind of leaks, we're left waiting and speculating.

 

[riviansmoke]

Late to the party, finally put a reservation in August ‘22 with the hope that some options would stay under the $80k threshold. Very disappointed that no real options exist anymore and likely knocks the R1 out as an option.
I wonder if the inflation reduction act never went through, whether Rivian would have removed the explore package. Maybe if I hang on, an R1t option with a decent battery will present itself in 2024. I guess I can hope, but likely will need to go a different direction. I can’t see the R2 platforms realistically being delivered to consumers before 2026.

 

[atebit]

Start piling up accessories...that u may never actually get

…Or end up coming in Minimum Viable “Colorways”. Then still never get them.

 

[Budman]

My original R1T order was for Explorer/max pack/manual tonneau. From this forum and other sources I saw that was a very rare configuration. It became clear months ago that shipping that configuration would be low priority and far in the future. I changed to Adventure/Standard battery/ powered tonneau and got my truck within a few weeks of changing (I live 5 miles from a service center). My range is regularly hitting 350 miles vs the 314 EPA estimate so now I’m thinking the 10k extra for max pack isn’t justified for me. I am thrilled with the truck and glad I made the configuration switch to get it sooner.

 

[sk00pie]

First world problems

haha oh to totally. My current model 3 lease is up March 2024. I’m set on another EV 60k or under after rebates. Not many options!

 

[Jac]

I think I can answer my own question. It appears that the price cap is based on MSRP, which includes destination charge but not taxes. Because Rivian is now charging a $1500 destination fee, my upper limit on the vehicle package is $78,500 to still get the rebate.
I think if I use Walmart shopping bags instead of the All-Weather floor mats, I can squeak by. ?

You didn’t sign the BPA last week because you are so confident Rivian’s batteries will qualify under the battery mineral/component sourcing requirements in the new EV tax credit? MSRP under $80k is just one of the requirements under the new EV tax credit.

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