Rivian "Joe Mode"

[rpmtexas]

While that is semi-correct, it's exceptionally unlikely if you're following me at these speeds that you'd find it annoying.

However, I'd also argue that the lift-off decel of one-pedal-driving leads to far more speed volatility than coasting.

Not to mention with the weight of EVs they decelerate very slowly. If you lift in our e-Tron S it coasts forever at exactly the same speed. It’s like trying to stop a train. No question one pedal driving is not the same as covering the break.

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[Dark-Fx]

While that is semi-correct, it's exceptionally unlikely if you're following me at these speeds that you'd find it annoying.

Depends, if you're "covering the brake" are you doing it enough to light up the taillights?

However, I'd also argue that the lift-off decel of one-pedal-driving leads to far more speed volatility than coasting.

Most of the roads I drive on a regular basis are grid roads, boring as shit here. There's no lift-off deceleration unless I'm actively responding to something in front of me like another car or a stop sign/light.

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Joe mode just makes the interior sounds only come out the front speakers so that it doesn’t disturb people, mostly young children, in the back.

I'm not going to knock new features. But that "sounds" absolutely useless, LOL. ?

 

[just_lex]

I'm not going to knock new features. But that "sounds" absolutely useless, LOL. ?

No offense, but that sounds like someone who has never been a mother. My children are teenagers now so it's fine, but when they were babies and had fallen asleep in the car, I would have lost my marbles if they woke up because the sound of pings/beeping from backing up woke them up. My kids both had colic and sleep was precious.

 

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

No offense, but

Anybody who starts a sentence with "no offense, but" obviously means to offend. Have a good day.

 

[RexRemus]

I would argue this is incorrect as region does not provide the equivalent stopping power of stepping on the brake - which is what covering the brake allows for. Kid runs out in the road quickly, the driver can jam on the brake and bring the car to a stop much faster than the region.

Regan just slows to an eventual stop.

I would love to stop talking about this...

Nothing precludes you from moving your foot and applying the friction brakes as well. But you DO start decelerating immediately, and at least in the Rivian, quite rapidly. So you are actively, rapidly, decelerating while you then move to apply the friction brakes.

If the assumption is "covering the brake" only exists to completely lock up the tires (get into ABS) then maybe, yes, in that extreme case, you might save a few feet of stopping distance - but let's be real here, even covering the brake in an ICE vehicle most times you're just tapping it, or doing a controlled stop. If you are at low speeds, you're likely giving up very little in terms of risk avoidance between letting off, immediately slowing down, and applying friction brakes for a panic stop. At high speeds... it's a 7000lb truck. It's only gonna stop so fast, period. Again, I feel like you might be giving up a few feet of extra distance.

This feels like a "I just don't like one-pedal driving and want to convince everyone why it's bad" thing vs an actual significant and practical "danger" thing. We've had over a decade of Teslas and other one-pedal EVs and I am unaware of a massive increase in "children chasing balls into the street being mowed over by EVs" statistic. Or any other relevant stat that shows it as being a clear and present danger.

I don't care if people want Joe Mode, if they want "make my EV drive like my ICE" mode - truly I don't. but just say it's a personal preference. Say I don't like feathering this thing I can't get smooth with it. Whatever. But I think trying to induce "fear" or safety concerns really isn't a fair thing to do.

 

[Dark-Fx]

We've had over a decade of Teslas and other one-pedal EVs and I am unaware of a massive increase in "children chasing balls into the street being mowed over by EVs" statistic.

 

[RexRemus]

FSD doesn't cover the brake it seems... ;-)

 

[rpmtexas]

I would love to stop talking about this...

Nothing precludes you from moving your foot and applying the friction brakes as well. But you DO start decelerating immediately, and at least in the Rivian, quite rapidly. So you are actively, rapidly, decelerating while you then move to apply the friction brakes.

If the assumption is "covering the brake" only exists to completely lock up the tires (get into ABS) then maybe, yes, in that extreme case, you might save a few feet of stopping distance - but let's be real here, even covering the brake in an ICE vehicle most times you're just tapping it, or doing a controlled stop. If you are at low speeds, you're likely giving up very little in terms of risk avoidance between letting off, immediately slowing down, and applying friction brakes for a panic stop. At high speeds... it's a 7000lb truck. It's only gonna stop so fast, period. Again, I feel like you might be giving up a few feet of extra distance.

This feels like a "I just don't like one-pedal driving and want to convince everyone why it's bad" thing vs an actual significant and practical "danger" thing. We've had over a decade of Teslas and other one-pedal EVs and I am unaware of a massive increase in "children chasing balls into the street being mowed over by EVs" statistic. Or any other relevant stat that shows it as being a clear and present danger.

I don't care if people want Joe Mode, if they want "make my EV drive like my ICE" mode - truly I don't. but just say it's a personal preference. Say I don't like feathering this thing I can't get smooth with it. Whatever. But I think trying to induce "fear" or safety concerns really isn't a fair thing to do.

Covering the break is about decreasing the lag associated with the physiology of stopping the vehicle - I.e. moving your foot. Research shows it averages 3/4 of a second. It involves removing foot from accelerator, moving foot over to brake, and applying break. Covering the break eliminates two physiological responses and a significant amount of reaction time. This stopping occurs faster or vehicle impact is significantly lessened.

 

[Quick]

Depends, if you're "covering the brake" are you doing it enough to light up the taillights?


Most of the roads I drive on a regular basis are grid roads, boring as shit here. There's no lift-off deceleration unless I'm actively responding to something in front of me like another car or a stop sign/light.

No, not press. Cover in case. Pressing would be functionally the same (and in that case I would agree with you)

 

[just_lex]

Anybody who starts a sentence with "no offense, but" obviously means to offend. Have a good day.

I thought it was a pretty innocuous statement, but apologies if it offended you.

 

[Quick]

I would love to stop talking about this...

Nothing precludes you from moving your foot and applying the friction brakes as well. But you DO start decelerating immediately, and at least in the Rivian, quite rapidly. So you are actively, rapidly, decelerating while you then move to apply the friction brakes.

If the assumption is "covering the brake" only exists to completely lock up the tires (get into ABS) then maybe, yes, in that extreme case, you might save a few feet of stopping distance - but let's be real here, even covering the brake in an ICE vehicle most times you're just tapping it, or doing a controlled stop. If you are at low speeds, you're likely giving up very little in terms of risk avoidance between letting off, immediately slowing down, and applying friction brakes for a panic stop. At high speeds... it's a 7000lb truck. It's only gonna stop so fast, period. Again, I feel like you might be giving up a few feet of extra distance.

This feels like a "I just don't like one-pedal driving and want to convince everyone why it's bad" thing vs an actual significant and practical "danger" thing. We've had over a decade of Teslas and other one-pedal EVs and I am unaware of a massive increase in "children chasing balls into the street being mowed over by EVs" statistic. Or any other relevant stat that shows it as being a clear and present danger.

I don't care if people want Joe Mode, if they want "make my EV drive like my ICE" mode - truly I don't. but just say it's a personal preference. Say I don't like feathering this thing I can't get smooth with it. Whatever. But I think trying to induce "fear" or safety concerns really isn't a fair thing to do.

So many assumptions in what you wrote.

But, this is about making my BEV drive like my other more efficient BEV (Taycan). Not make it drive like my ICE. In fact, my Taycan is far better at lift-off than my ICE cars.

This is an argument about pure inefficiency. And if you're not aware why it's bad - try ratcheting up the speed a bit and see how efficiently you actually control the car.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Covering the break is about decreasing the lag associated with the physiology of stopping the vehicle - I.e. moving your foot. Research shows it averages 3/4 of a second. It involves removing foot from accelerator, moving foot over to brake, and applying break. Covering the break eliminates two physiological responses and a significant amount of reaction time. This stopping occurs faster or vehicle impact is significantly lessened.

Oh, research?

Here you go. If you actually want to read the paper you can probably reach out to the author directly and request a copy vs paying for it.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00140139.2021.1908601?journalCode=terg20


For a non-research opinion on it, I find it's easier when emergency braking to hit the braking threshold with regen active versus ending up activating ABS immediately before the weight transfer starts in a vehicle that coasts down.

 

[RexRemus]

Rivians have collision mitigation braking which will kick in and actively reduce speed if you are not in order to reduce impact - in the case of a vehicle on vehicle collision. The vehicle itself is always actively "covering the brake" - so let's not ignore this feature in the conversation.

Vehicle to child? Are we talking at surface street/neighborhood speeds or highway speeds?

Because if you're going over 15-20mph on a street where a child can run/ride out in front of you the problem is that. If you have any time to react - assuming 1-2s - then ANY braking at all is going to greatly reduce the impact - because almost any vehicle can brake from 15mph to 5 or less rapidly via any deceleration method. At least enough to where there might be injury, but it should be minor if at all.

I'm not trying to debate that physically moving your foot from pedal A to pedal B has latency - of course it does. All I have been saying is deceleration begins the moment you lift off, and if it's a full lift at speed, it's not insignificant deceleration so while you are moving your foot to panic stop on the friction brakes you are actively mitigating impact speed to a degree far greater than you would with a traditional "coast" (ICE or EV with coasting "mapped" in) during the time your foot moves to the brake.

Is that not true? You still get a reduced reaction time to deceleration. Covering the brake, or lifting off at full regen. Both require a single action to begin braking. That's it. Can we agree on that?

Because this is getting utterly asinine

 

[Brewbud]

The only time I would like no a regen or light regen on the road is when going through the twisties fast. I can modulate the regen with my gas pedal but sometimes it is a little harder than with a car that can coast. Then again on some corners regen works better.

As far as emergency braking in normal driving, getting off the gas and onto the brake is faster in the R1T since the car is already aggressively slowing down before I can even get on the brake.

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