Canceled my R1S order :-(

[COdogman]

The "homeless people" critique was specific to the overall buying experience Rivian is offering. Quite honestly, I'm not a fan of that test drive location either and believe Rivian needs to find a better solution. As a shareholder and owner, they should improve on that part of the experience if they want to expand their market beyond early adopters/EV devotees. Granted, that is a critique specific to the San Jose location.

Do people NEVER repeat a complaint that they've heard someone else say/mention? If so, that's impressive.

I don't agree that the X7 is a completely different vehicle that the S doesn't compete with. They're both 7-passenger large SUVs that cost ~$100k. Certainly they're closer to each other than the Leaf to Rivian cross-shopping that someone else on this thread mentioned. If you're in an X7 and are thinking that you want to move to an electric 3-row SUV, what else do you cross-shop? There's basically the MB EQS SUV, Model X, and R1S. I know people who have test driven 20+ cars before picking one, so to test drive/cross-shop the R1S seems pretty reasonable.

I didn't say that complaints were never repeated. I said if CarPlay and massaging seats are that important to you then you should not go drive a vehicle that doesn't have them then complain about it not having those features that you already knew it didn't have.

The X7 is an SUV with 3 rows in a similar price range. That is where the comparison ends though. It's not electric with an adjustable suspension that can run Hell's Gate without modification. It's not fair to either the X7 or the S to compare them. They aren't designed to do the same things.

Homeless people exist. I honestly applaud Rivian for setting up centers in several places around the country that are in transition. To me it says something about the corporate culture that seeks to improve the cities they operate in instead of just leasing space in a business park. so it's a positive in my eyes. The Denver SC is in a neighborhood that used to be pretty rough, but new businesses have moved in and it's getting better. Yes, you might see a homeless person. God forbid they walk around in public.

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[zor]

Well, I finally got my test drive this weekend and after waiting a long 18 months I'm sad to say the R1S simply didn't live up to my (or my wife's) expectations.

Granted, this is from the perspective of having driven a BMW X7 for 4 years now (and currently) and a full size Range Rover for 5 years before that.

Here are some of the "low-lights":

Rivian gave me an address in San Jose to meet them for the test drive. I was fully expecting this to be Rivan's building, but instead it was a park across the street from a sketchy neighborhood with homeless people wandering around, and project cars parked on front lawns. After driving around in circles wondering how our GPS did us wrong, I finally saw a lone R1S on the side of the road. I hesitantly walked up to it and sure enough, there sits a young kid inside waiting for us. Like, do you think they could have been a little more specific in the e-mail that we'd be meeting some dude in a park in a sketchy neighborhood to go for a test drive....not a great start! Super unprofessional and kind of mind-boggling actually!

Outside walkaround:

- The walk-around of the vehicle was fine. I did notice a few minor panel gap issues but didn't bother pointing them out. It was green (not launch green) and the paint sparkles were pretty nice when the sun hit it. Can't deny it's nice looking from the outside!
- It had the 22" wheels, also nice. It had the Quad package.

Inside walkaround:

- The inside of the vehicle is where we were let down a bit. The way all the seats fold down with a loud *thunk* seems very unrefined for a vehicle this expensive and it's literally the very first thing the guy showed, as if that was a great "feature". "Thunk, thunk, thunk." ?? Every other luxury SUV in this class has electric controls to move the seats or at least a "soft open/close feel" rather than just thunking into place like a basic work pickup truck or something.
- The sound system was pretty decent and got loud but was also kind of unrefined with not much detail. It's too bad they pulled out the Meridian system (which was awesome in the Range Rover).
- No option for rear side window shades (not even manually operated), or a shade for the sunroof.
- Glass sunroof does not open at all...what's the point? We always crack our sunroof when parking outside on a hot day and it makes a huge difference without having to roll the windows down.
- Interior seats were reasonably comfortable front and rear, but my back started sweating immediately while sitting in the back seat in the "vegan leather" which was a surprisingly stiff and clammy vinyl. Back seat is not ventilated either. Putting an adult back there on a hot day with no window shades or sunroof shade seems like it would be a fairly torturous experience.
- No massage seat option.
- There is a display for the climate control in the back that the passenger cannot control (at least that's what the test drive guy said)...what's the point?
- Up front the seats were comfortable but even with the ventilation on (which was uncomfortably cold in the wrong places) my back was still sweating...maybe I was still just too hot from sitting in the back for only 5 minutes. At least your privates will stay cool. ?
- Overall the interior is nice and cleanly designed --the matte wood was nice, but it's still pretty sterile in a Tesla sort of way and also seemed "plasticky" everywhere -- definitely more of an entry level Volvo feel than a car costing $100k. Having come from both BMW and Range Rover, the overall interior quality is just not even on the same level -- this would be a serious downgrade from the X7 or a Range Rover where you are coddled in leather and soft-touch surfaces everywhere! The Sensafin artificial leather on the BMWs doesn't make your back sweat either and the ventilation cools you off evenly. And well, leather is there as an option if you want it.... I was really surprised here, the interior looks much better in pictures than in person where you definitely notice all the corners that were cut.
- No glove box, but hey, there's a sunglass holder under the passenger seat--I guess you could keep your paperwork there...

Test drive:

- Steering input and resistance seemed fine, similar to the BMW, but you could really tell the steering was electric and not "connected to the road" if that makes sense--now I understand why some of the car reviews call the steering "vague"--I don't really agree with that characterization but it's weird not feeling the road under you when you steer.
- I didn't really notice any weird noises as mentioned on the forums or in some reviews.
- It seemed peppy-ish driving around normally, but I felt like you really needed to lay into the gas pedal to give it some oomph, where there is then this latency of nothing happening and then bam, it's almost too much and the front end lifts up like you are about to take off in an airplane. I never really found a happy medium between peppy and sporty and didn't feel a ton of difference in throttle response in sport mode other than the suspension becoming unbearably stiff. I was very surprised how much you had to lay into it to get anything out of it--all of that (3.5s to 60) power seemed either on or off. Coming from BMW, the slightest modulation of the gas pedal with one toe gives you what you expect and you feel like you have all the power available to you at any time, especially in sport mode, which didn't seem to be the case with the Rivian. Granted, I didn't have nearly enough time with it and I haven't seen this mentioned in any of the reviews, so take this one with a grain of salt.
.- Yes, the regenerative braking thing is hard to get used to. It was set to minimum and seemed very aggressive. My wife commented that her foot would get tired from having to be on the accelerator all the time and not being able to coast in traffic when cruise is not on--I didn't think about that but it's a good point. I told her at least she'd save her foot by not having to use the brakes, haha.
- The blinker sound is kind of annoying and yet somehow also not really loud enough either.

Okay, so all of the above gripes aside, keep in mind this was all being extra-critical as in "is this the car we're going to sell the X7 for?" I was literally half-overlooking all of the above until...

The absolute deal-breaker was simply that it rides like a 90's pickup truck on the freeway, bouncing up and down and side to side and front to back. My wife was in the back and immediately said "is it as bumpy up there as it is back here?" Yep, it was. Not only could you feel every single bump in the road but it also had that feeling where after you hit a bump you can't tell if you are still hitting bumps or if it's still bouncing up and down from the first bump. Hands down, absolutely atrocious, unforgivable ride quality for a vehicle this expensive! I asked the guy if it had received the latest update and he said it did not...I have a hard time seeing how a "software update" could fix a suspension that badly dialed in, or how their engineers would even let that thing out of the factory to begin with! Granted, California freeways are tough test, they are pretty atrocious as well, but our neighbor's Subaru Outback rides better than the R1S!

As spec'd with the Max battery pack and a few accessories, I was happily prepared to spend nearly $108,000 on this vehicle sight unseen myself.... Thank god we saw it and drove it in person, because for equal or less money we can get a brand new fully loaded X7 with every option ticked, or another Range Rover, or a Porsche Cayenne, etc. Those 3 vehicles at the same price are literally all in another stratosphere from fit and finish and refinement perspective than this vehicle.

Overall, it seemed like it would be a great vehicle for an adventurous outdoorsy person in their early 30's splurging on their first "nice" car, but I have a hard time seeing how that person is also going to happily spend upwards of $100k on this thing!?

Hopefully this isn't a knock to the thousands of people here who love theirs, it simply just wasn't for us. My advice to anyone waiting for one is if you haven't driven it, be sure to schedule a test drive before pulling the trigger!

sounds like you were hoping to talk yourself out of spending 108k....lol. i just had to google what the interior of a BMW X7 looked like and saw a youtube...you have to be kidding me.... you call the X7 interior luxurious on another "stratosphere"???? Nothing screams gimmicky like a <<<<<>>>>>X7 light racing across your dashboard. You say the R1S feels visually plasticky? Have you looked at the X7 interior - literally....literally, plastic buttons galore (including an enormous plastic wheel knob!)...on your left, in front of you, on the center, on your right.... and nothing yells, luxury like that cramped ass space in the X7 cockpit. I mean, come on.... it's fine to not enjoy the R1S during a demo but to compare it to something that is subjectively "better" is a foul. I look at the BMW X7 and to me it looks like it's a borderline mini van- i don't like it.

To compare this 108k vehicle to a 108k ICE vehicle (X7 M60i) is also not a fair comparison. If you're going to do that then you also need to incorporate the $ savings per year in maintenance costs where the R1S won't need oil changes, won't need brake changes, and won't need gasoline. Assume 15,000 miles in one year and with X7's average 18(?) mpg you're looking at 833 gallons of PREMIUM gasoline. California average gas price today for premium is $6.13. do the math, dude - over $5k in one year in gasoline alone...after 5 years you've spent $25k! Add in the scheduled service charges....filter changes, oil changes, fluid changes lol.... there's a reason buyers pay a premium for EVs.

 

[drivetorun]

I didn't say that complaints were never repeated. I said if CarPlay and massaging seats are that important to you then you should not go drive a vehicle that doesn't have them then complain about it not having those features that you already knew it didn't have.

The X7 is an SUV with 3 rows in a similar price range. That is where the comparison ends though. It's not electric with an adjustable suspension that can run Hell's Gate without modification. It's not fair to either the X7 or the S to compare them. They aren't designed to do the same things.

Homeless people exist. I honestly applaud Rivian for setting up centers in several places around the country that are in transition. To me it says something about the corporate culture that seeks to improve the cities they operate in instead of just leasing space in a business park. so it's a positive in my eyes. The Denver SC is in a neighborhood that used to be pretty rough, but new businesses have moved in and it's getting better. Yes, you might see a homeless person. God forbid they walk around in public.

It looks like you started drafting your response while I was still editing mine...clearly I need to read through things a few extra times before posting...

I agree that my first statement around Carplay/massaging seats was a little flawed. What I meant was it's not unreasonable for someone to repeat a complaint about something that is offered in other vehicles. I can't tell you the number of times I've complained about the lack of exterior color variety by some manufacturers (for me, one of Rivian's pluses was that they offered interesting colors). Should I never voice that critique on a forum (e.g. I test drove a Miata, but I couldn't get excited about any of the exterior colors when I saw them in-person, so I decided not to buy)?

There's more similarities between the X7 and the Rivian. Towing capacity. Acceleration.

I wouldn't mind if Rivian set-up a test drive center in a transitional neighborhood to improve areas of a city. But Rivian has made ZERO investment to do test drives at this park. If they're picking up the tab to improve the park's amenities to attract more kids, make it more useful to the surrounding community, etc., that'd be news to me.

 

[TollKeeper]

I hate to say it, but the OP is actually correct.. for different reasons.

One thing Tesla and Rivian are doing, that I dont agree with... These are the vehicles, these are your extremely limited options, take it or leave it. Pick a color (exterior), pick another color (interior), and pick a rim. In the grand scheme of things, this is all you can really pick from.

But I can see why Rivian did do this, as a new company, lets them keep the tooling limited, to try to become profitable. Maybe they will offer it down the road.... But likely not if they follow in Tesla's footsteps... Which they have already shown they will.

Tesla at this point, has no excuse.

There are options on all Rivians we dont need/want. There are options on all Rivians that we wish we could get, especially from the manufacture.

I could do without: Glass roof
I could do with: HUD, Better seats, AA/ACP, a spare tire (without paying more for it)

But as I said, with Rivian standardizing what is in their vehicle, they minimize the exposure.

But they also limit some potential customers like the OP that is looking for something a bit more upscale.

Edit: Is the Rivian comparable to a BMW X7? No! Is the Rivian comparable to a LR? No!

 

[SoCal Rob]

I'm disappointed in the folks on this thread criticizing the OP for sharing their negative experience -- basically saying that since the vehicle isn't right for the OP, there isn't a point in providing that perspective.

Have you told other people on this forum that they shouldn't post their positive experiences with their Rivian? They bought it, so of course they think it's good. Also, do you never read negative reviews on Amazon products/find them completely useless? While it may not be helpful to you, it may be helpful to others who are still considering their purchase.

He test drove, found out it confirmed some of his concerns, that the positives weren't enough to outweigh the negatives in his mind, and shared that perspective. The whole point of forums is to share experiences/information in the hope it may be useful to others (or even to Rivian)--just because it wasn't useful specifically for you, doesn't mean it's worthless. Don't click on a thread called "Canceled my R1S order" if you don't care to read about why someone may not like a Rivian.

I think some of the feedback is useful, but the way OP conveyed their experience they seem to have conflated legitimate issues, concerns about the test drive environment, and complaints about things that were NEVER promised. I even asked @BigGreenR1S if they engaged the employee to ask about their concerns constructively and haven’t seen a response.

My perception is that they went in with a pre-conceived notion, confirmed their bias in both legitimate and questionable ways, didn’t try to get the biggest complaint addressed by asking the Rivian person to help them, and came here with what many are seeing as an agenda.

The fact that it’s such a mixed bag is why I find myself both agreeing and disagreeing within some of the same posts here. I’ve seen harsher critiques of Rivian and their products which I‘ve found to be more useful.

 

[Tango45]

@BigGreenR1S While I disagree with some parts of your assessment and the praise being laid at the feet of BMW (where I come from, we refer to them as "Bayerischer MistWagen"), I am glad that you had a test drive and that your experience stopped you from making a decision that you would regret or make you resentful of the brand. I hope you find what you're looking for and that, whatever that might be, it runs on electrons instead of fermented dinosaurs.

...unless it's a CyberTruck. Ewww. (How have we gone 7 pages and not segued into CT-bashing yet?) /s

 

[COdogman]

It looks like you started drafting your response while I was still editing mine...clearly I need to read through things a few extra times before posting...

I agree that my first statement around Carplay/massaging seats was a little flawed. What I meant was it's not unreasonable for someone to repeat a complaint about something that is offered in other vehicles. I can't tell you the number of times I've complained about the lack of exterior color variety by some manufacturers (for me, one of Rivian's pluses was that they offered interesting colors). Should I never voice that critique on a forum (e.g. I test drove a Miata, but I couldn't get excited about any of the exterior colors when I saw them in-person, so I decided not to buy)?

There's more similarities between the X7 and the Rivian. Towing capacity. Acceleration.

I wouldn't mind if Rivian set-up a test drive center in a transitional neighborhood to improve areas of a city. But Rivian has made ZERO investment to do test drives at this park. If they're picking up the tab to improve the park's amenities to attract more kids, make it more useful to the surrounding community, etc., that'd be news to me.

I follow you. I definitely understand wanting a feature that I know a manufacturer doesn't have (whatever that feature might be..). I just wouldn't complain about it because it's up to me to have my priorities in order when I buy a vehicle. The things I have decided I can live with/ without. If I decide I could live without something then I shouldn't complain about it IMHO. If not, then I probably should cross it off my list before I drive it.

Ultimately Rivian is not trying to be BMW. Or Mercedes. Or Range Rover. They have many areas they need to improve on, but complaining about seeing homeless people during a test drive says more about the person complaining than it does about Rivian. It has some serious NIMBY vibes....

 

[iansriv]

I echo the comments about Rivian setting up shop in some places that are transitioning. Not only is it good for the area but it's good for the test drives. You want the roads to look like war zones to test the car out properly.

 

[carsly]

 

[docwhiz]

It looks like you started drafting your response while I was still editing mine...clearly I need to read through things a few extra times before posting...

I agree that my first statement around Carplay/massaging seats was a little flawed. What I meant was it's not unreasonable for someone to repeat a complaint about something that is offered in other vehicles. I can't tell you the number of times I've complained about the lack of exterior color variety by some manufacturers (for me, one of Rivian's pluses was that they offered interesting colors). Should I never voice that critique on a forum (e.g. I test drove a Miata, but I couldn't get excited about any of the exterior colors when I saw them in-person, so I decided not to buy)?

There's more similarities between the X7 and the Rivian. Towing capacity. Acceleration.

I wouldn't mind if Rivian set-up a test drive center in a transitional neighborhood to improve areas of a city. But Rivian has made ZERO investment to do test drives at this park. If they're picking up the tab to improve the park's amenities to attract more kids, make it more useful to the surrounding community, etc., that'd be news to me.

Looks like you are expecting something like your BMW or Land Rover. However, those are "mall crawlers" built to optimize the experience of taking the family to the mall. The suspension, interior, features, etc. are tuned to the mall experience.
Rivian is a "rock crawler" which has suspension, ground clearance, and other features more attuned to the off road "adventure" market.

(I'm very sorry that you had to look at homeless people. Our gilded age society usually does a good job of insulating the well off from those we have abandoned without care.)

I think you made the right decision to cancel your order for the Rivian. It's not for you.

 

[SoCal Rob]

Looks like you are expecting something like your BMW or Land Rover.

The indignity of have one’s Range Rover referred to as a mere Land Rover!

Seriously, though, I see the Land Rover Defender as being the closest new vehicle to an R1S in terms of premium (not luxury) truly off-road capable SUVs.

 

[drivetorun]

Looks like you are expecting something like your BMW or Land Rover. However, those are "mall crawlers" built to optimize the experience of taking the family to the mall. The suspension, interior, features, etc. are tuned to the mall experience.
Rivian is a "rock crawler" which has suspension, ground clearance, and other features more attuned to the off road "adventure" market.

(I'm very sorry that you had to look at homeless people. Our gilded age society usually does a good job of insulating the well off from those we have abandoned without care.)

I think you made the right decision to cancel your order for the Rivian. It's not for you.

Just to clarify, I'm not the OP. I happily took delivery of my R1S about a month ago. I just felt it was important to defend the OP's right to critique Rivian/the R1S without having some forum members be so dismissive.

 

[EVfanboy]

I found this post useful. More importantly it generated
many responses which in themselves are useful. I want any vehicle, no matter what price point, to have a decent ride. The only category that’s exempt in my mind is a true sports car - Porsche 911, Corvette, M Series and the likes. One doesn’t drive them and talk necessarily about ride comfort. The real question is whether R1S has a tolerable decent ride on average road conditions. This of course is subjective and so opinions matter. Most of the other stuff can be looked online such as cargo space, car play etc

 

[RivianPioneer]

You are literally describing me. Let me answer your question, R1 platform makes a lot more sense before the price increase.

In the end, the Rivian ownership worked out for me, but this ev is not for everyone.

 

[RivianPioneer]

Some of the “disappointments” expressed relative to your BMW are fair, but I am really surprised about your description of the ride being similar to a 90s pickup. On that observation, my experience is 100% different. Mine drives like you’re on a cloud, which leads me to believe that you were on the Sports Mode setting, which someone commented on as a posssiblity before. Like many have said, it’s not for everyone. People getting Rivians are paying for the EV tech, and while the Rivian does have a good number of convenience features in it, it doesn’t compare to high end BMWs or Mercedes in terms of luxury features designed to pamper the driver and passengers, but it blows those maker’s cars away, in my opinion, in terms of its EV tech dollar for dollar.

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