Negative EV press blitz

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The saddest part is how many Rivian owners posted here that they think these stories have some credibility.

I am sorry for not treating this forum like an echo chamber sharing my real world experience on a recent road trip. The reality is most people don't want to spend 2-3 hours in a parking lot while on a road trip.

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[shap]

I forgot that cars have never run out of gas.

And ? You then tow the car or just bring bottle of gas? This is not the same

 

[Redline]

There is not significant negative public sentiment nor was there a negative natural reaction to people buying EVs. You all are seeing a public relations campaign that began in 2022.

The campaign is funded by the API and other fossil fuel interests. Yes, the WSJ is part of the problem. They published the OG negative article late last year.

The saddest part is how many Rivian owners posted here that they think these stories have some credibility.

I've been telling people for a year now, these are funded by the oil and gas industry but they continue to slurp it up.

Social media has made peoples brains mush.

 

[Fmc]

And ? You then tow the car or just bring bottle of gas? This is not the same

All cars will inevitably have a maintenance/service issue. I have ran out of gas, had a dead battery, a dead starter, a broken shifter cable to name a few. I fully expect maintenance for EVs as well.

 

[WorldComposting]

As more people buy EVs, there is a larger sample size of people that have more experiences, good or bad. As more people get on the road with their EVs, there are more lines for chargers. There are people that are buying EVs that don't have places at home or work to charge, in my opinion they shouldn't be buying them if they can't easily charge at home. But those people are sharing their ownership experiences. There are people with no EV experience getting EVs as rentals, probably the worst EV experience for a first time EV user.

A couple weeks ago, I took a 425 mile trip to Maine in my R1T. I had to stop 3 times on the way there, and 3 times on the way back. I had to stop every 2 to 2.5 hours, for at least 30 minutes to charge. One stop on the way there and one on the way back had lines, so I had to wait 30 minutes just to plug in. A 7 hour drive easily became 9 hours. I am used to driving 4-5 hours at a time, without stopping. Plus, while I was in Maine, the house had no outdoor outlets, so if I was going to drive around, I would need to budget at least 1.5 hours to get to a charger and charge, for every 150 miles driven, during my long weekend. I have owned my R1T for just over one year, and this was the first trip I took that needed more than one charging stop in each direction. I drive by myself, so the only person inconvenienced is myself. My friends and family I met in Maine, took their ICE vehicles. They had zero interest in spending an extra 2 hours on a road trip, and I can't blame them. Plus the charging stops aren't exactly scenic, mainly Walmarts or malls, good for bathrooms or shopping if needed, but little else. EV enthusiasts love to say you need to plan your trip with plugshare. I used plugshare, it didn't identify 3 of 6 broken chargers at one site I used, despite a score of 10.

You can make the argument that the extended time spent time charging on a road trip is offset by the day to day experience of never going to a gas station. So you may spend less time at a DCFC overall than you spend at gas stations over the period you own a vehicle. But I don't think I ever waited 20 minutes to put gas in a vehicle. Patience wears thin on people waiting in line, with places to go, things to do. One of my charging stops had one person that was being somewhat aggressive despite others in line. They were trying to use a plug from a charger already in use, and seemed to try to argue with the person already using the charger.

Some EV enthusiasts also love to say the networks will get better. They probably will. But when? Over how long? Most people buy for how things currently are, not for what they are hoping they will be. I know Rivian and other manufacturers are supposed to get access to the largest charging network next year, but lets not pretend that charging company's CEO isn't afraid to break a promise/agreement (or outright lie) about his product. As that companies car sales slow, will they identify their greatest asset may be their charging network?

People that are anti-EV should realize if they are driving less than 200 miles a day, the EV short comings probably won't bother them on a day to day basis. And when they are driving more than 200 miles on a trip, how often is it, once a week, once a month, once a year? EV owners also need to realize once they are above 80% charge, for the most part, they are just clogging up chargers. I was very annoyed at my charging experience on my trip, but I also have to remember I charge at work, and that covered about 10,000 miles of my driving since I have owned the R1T (free charging at work). Is 10,000 miles of free charging worth the trade off of waiting to charge on an occasional road trip? But I also admit, in the future, if a road trip takes more than one charging stop in each direction, I will probably stick with my ICE vehicle. But most people aren't fortunate enough to have multiple vehicles to make that choice.

I usually discount the articles written that say lithium mining is bad, because they give a free pass to oil. But articles about peoples experience using the vehicles is usually real, and shouldn't be ignored. People don't want to plan their trips around specific point to stop just to charge, every two hours. People don't want 12 apps for 12 different charging providers, just so they can do a road trip. People don't want to drive 2.5 hours to their nearest service center.

This is 100% it. I really wanted my wife to get an EV as she only does local driving maybe hitting 150 miles a day. I use my vehicle for all the long trips and all trips where we go as a family.

Because she didn't want an EV I bought the R1S which fits our needs but my wife is so worried we kept the Ascent for my older son to drive who just got his license. I have already made multiple 200+ mile trips where charging is needed and there are a lot of issues here on the East Coast.

I think the location of where you are makes a big difference as to the charging networks and how well they work. When driving south from Maryland the chargers have typically been derated and slow. Luckily I normally pulled in before the rush where a line would form. Going North toward Albany is similar. Again I was lucky but I spent a lot more time charging than I thought I would on these trips. I don't mind it but the others in the car do.

The CCS charging infrastructure is not robust enough and not reliable enough for some people who don't want to plan ahead or always worry and EVs aren't for them yet.

I still wonder why Rivian is only putting in 4-6 chargers at each location when I already know if they open it up these to other brands all the chargers will be taken by non Rivian vehicles immediately. EA, EVgo and others do the same thing we need large charging stops with multiple chargers so people don't have to think about it and if one or two don't work it doesn't matter as much.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Overall market is struggling to make sales and they are trying to push people in the door to buy ICEs instead.

 

[Zoidz]

...
But the real problem is that it become political. Using EV associated with climate activists, current administration supporters, etc. Despite the fact that many of EV owners just have fun driving electric and have nothing to do with anything else ….

This.
The anti-EV politicians are leveraging the stagnate sales as proof of their claims. If you watched the recent Republican debate, it was very clear. This is going to increase going into elections next years.

 

[shap]

This.
The anti-EV politicians are leveraging the stagnate sales as proof of their claims. If you watched the recent Republican debate, it was very clear. This is going to increase going into elections next years.

This is part of the general issue - the current administration's push for EVs, Electric heating, changing EPA rules for stoves, etc. All this creates a negative sentiment. Nobody likes to pay more for the same. I know most of the forum will disagree with me, but there is no financial justification to buy EVs. As there is no financial justification to buy BMW. But people do that, for various reasons. But the most of population will not be able to afford this. At least not till there will be parity in price (and we are moving in this direction pretty fast).

What puzzles me is why we do not develop cheap nuclear power and then the free market will do the rest - if kWh will cost 0.05c - people will choose this over gas for heating.

Mandates are only create negativity, IMHO.

 

[el_scorcho]

As more people buy EVs, there is a larger sample size of people that have more experiences, good or bad. As more people get on the road with their EVs, there are more lines for chargers. There are people that are buying EVs that don't have places at home or work to charge, in my opinion they shouldn't be buying them if they can't easily charge at home. But those people are sharing their ownership experiences. There are people with no EV experience getting EVs as rentals, probably the worst EV experience for a first time EV user.

Well put!

 

[LoneStar]

If you go on a trip over 750 miles each-way, and god-forbid you're towing something, then you'll realize there are serious drawbacks to current-state of EVs, even a Rivian. Having to stop for about an hour (when you must unhitch) every 100 miles or less let's you experience quite a reality-check.

 

[Craigins]

What puzzles me is why we do not develop cheap nuclear power and then the free market will do the rest - if kWh will cost 0.05c - people will choose this over gas for heating.

same answer as the post you quoted, politics. Fear mongering drove the NRC to unrealistic regulations, which cause the build time and price of plants to skyrocket.

 

[Redline]

 

[mtberman]

I am sorry for not treating this forum like an echo chamber sharing my real world experience on a recent road trip. The reality is most people don't want to spend 2-3 hours in a parking lot while on a road trip.

And now you’re here to complain that everyone was right when they warned you that EV road trips are not like ICE road trips. Got it.

 

[EBEG]

The big oil money is fueling the politics. Their plan is working. I've been on the receiving end of outright hatred from people who clearly support American made products (riding Harleys and driving HD diesel American trucks). Hatred for having the temerity to drive an American designed, American made pickup. It's weird.

 

[Zoidz]

What puzzles me is why we do not develop cheap nuclear power and then the free market will do the rest - if kWh will cost 0.05c - people will choose this over gas for heating.

same answer as the post you quoted, politics. Fear mongering drove the NRC to unrealistic regulations, which cause the build time and price of plants to skyrocket.

My first engineering job out of college was working at a nuclear power plant construction site in the 80s. One of the first things I learned was the the NRC, Westinghouse and GE screwed up royally in the late 60s and early 70s when they "designed" the plants. They scaled up the designs of small R&D reactors by 10x to 25x, not really thinking about the fact that problems/failures also scaled up at the same factor, or even worse, and they did not design for this. An accident waiting to happen. After TMI, the NRC required facilities to add on all sorts of safety and monitoring systems costing anywhere from $10M to $100M. It was a CF.

So today, people are afraid of considering or approving nuclear power based on fears that are 50 years old. Today's nuclear plant designs are Boeing 767s. The 60 - 70s plant designs are 1930s biplanes. It makes no sense, just irrational fear.

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