Cybertruck AWD now $$99,990, price increased AGAIN today 12/28/23

[sub]

Unlike most big manufacturers that set a price and stick with it for at least a year, Tesla gouges its customers whenever they are able to.

I agree with everything you said about Tesla. But I don't think it is at all accurate to say that other brands pick one price and stick with it.

During that time period when Tesla's prices were sky high, the other brands were adding 5-figure "market adjustment" fees.

Personally the only number I care about is the one on the check I have to write and at the end of the day, the only difference between Tesla's fluctuating MRSP and everyone else's fluctuating "market adjustment" fees is that Tesla is upfront about it vs everyone else who will not let you see the final price until you are half way through the purchasing process.

While I agree with your desire for stable pricing, I disagree that has ever been a reality with any automaker.

Sponsored

 

[usofrob]

I agree with 'sub', I think the manufacturers kept to a stable MSRP, but that doesn't mean a stable out the door price. They would do sales, or financing discounts, or dealer adjustments (up or down) as needed to help with demand. But they left much of that to the individual dealership.

 

[kizamybute']

I agree with everything you said about Tesla. But I don't think it is at all accurate to say that other brands pick one price and stick with it.

During that time period when Tesla's prices were sky high, the other brands were adding 5-figure "market adjustment" fees.

Personally the only number I care about is the one on the check I have to write and at the end of the day, the only difference between Tesla's fluctuating MRSP and everyone else's fluctuating "market adjustment" fees is that Tesla is upfront about it vs everyone else who will not let you see the final price until you are half way through the purchasing process.

While I agree with your desire for stable pricing, I disagree that has ever been a reality with automaker.

True, however, those are DEALER markups rather than manufacturer pricing. Generally can shop other dealers that dont add markups.

 

[cgm9999]

I think you're conflating "brands" with "dealerships".

I'm not aware of any car brands that have added so-called 5 figure market adjustments to vehicles. There have been countless low-volume, high-demand vehicles over the decades that have never been subject to mid-year or even year-to-year price hikes that you describe.

That said, these very same vehicles have indeed been subject to dealership market adjustments like you describe. Some might say that's just semantics, but, there are real and substantial financial differences at play here, mostly as they relate to resale value.

Let's take a recent example. The 2023 Toyota Corolla GR was released to great fanfare and as one of the low-volume, high-demand vehicles mentioned earlier, it was victim to the outrageous market adjustments by dealerships that you described. The MSRP never changed on these models, however. Theoretically, you could find a dealership willing to sell you one at MSRP. Rare? Sure. But possible. I've owned a few such vehicles over the years and never paid a dealer mark-up on any (e.g. 2015 Dodge Challenger Hellcat, 2012 Mustang Boss 302 Laguna Seca, 2011 BMW 1 series M, etc.). As a result, I've always been able to drive fantastic cars and come out ahead in terms of resale value.

With Tesla, you're buying directly from the company, not a dealership. Thus, the price is the price is the price. Said another way, the "MSRP" is always the same as the purchase price. While this pricing model has several advantages, one of which is that it reflects the economic ideal of matching pricing to supply and demand, it has an obvious fault - it assumes vehicles are the same as commodities like coal, petroleum, milk, etc.

Vehicles are likely to be a household's most expensive purchase - they hit the pocketbook exponentially more than any other purchase other than real estate. They also have a substantial value even when used, and therefore, resale value of a vehicle is a major purchasing factor for most buyers. Vehicles are not commodities because there's limitless product differentiation that make them unable to be priced like a fungible good. All these factors conspire to make Tesla's price fluctuations favorable to a buyer.

You don't have to look hard to find an example of this. A look at price trends on cargurus.com presents a harrowing picture:

From August 2022 to present, a Model X went from a value of $92,000 to $50,000. As a brand, the average Tesla vehicle depreciated a jaw-dropping 30% year over year. No other brand is even close to that. That means if I bought a Tesla Model X or S pre-price drop, I lost tens of thousands of dollars in resale value almost overnight.

The reason that market adjustments at the dealer level are not the same as those done at the brand level (i.e. Tesla) is that buyers that bought a vehicle with a markup at a dealership were armed with a critical component of the purchasing decision that Tesla buyers weren't - information.

Having information about a market greatly affects pricing and purchasing behaviors. This is of course why insider trading is illegal - insiders are armed with critical information that outsiders are not privy to and thus, are able to literally capitalize on their knowledge and manipulate markets to their will.

Tesla buyers likely would not have bought their vehicle if they knew that the price of that vehicle was about to drop double-digit percentage points in the course of a single year. Buyers paying markups on high demand vehicles at dealerships have the price hike information up front and are therefore in a much better position to decide if that markup is worth paying. Similarly, buyers of traditional car brands can draw from decades of automotive price trends and personal experiences to decide if they want to save x amount of money by buying a leftover model year vehicle with predictable cash and financing incentives versus buying at a premium at the height of demand.

Since these are generally known pricing trends, buyers can make less risky purchasing decisions. Also, depreciation is a generally well understood trend with all vehicle models; that's how banks are able to calculate money factors on leases. Tesla's abrupt price drops on their models was unprecedented and put many of their buyers in terrible financial predicaments.

You stated that Tesla's pricing is upfront. You could argue that it's the opposite - buyers had no idea that their vehicle would be priced drastically less over such a short period of time. Do I care about upfront pricing as a car buyer? Of course. But it's just one piece of the decision making process. I would say that Tesla was not upfront about pricing since it knew that it was going to drastically reduce prices on it's most expensive cars and failed to inform buyers of that information.

 

[bike123.com]

please do a caption contest here and tell me where to order T shirts
I'll take a quantity.
Trashla is a bit perjorative but catchy

 

[sub]

You stated that Tesla's pricing is upfront. You could argue that it's the opposite - buyers had no idea that their vehicle would be priced drastically less over such a short period of time. Do I care about upfront pricing as a car buyer? Of course. But it's just one piece of the decision making process. I would say that Tesla was not upfront about pricing since it knew that it was going to drastically reduce prices on it's most expensive cars and failed to inform buyers of that information.

You should zoom out and look a bit further back in time. Tesla's prices today are almost exactly the same as they were in January of 2020.

I can't remember what, but I think I recall something happening in 2020 that caused the supply/demand curve to shift a bit. If you didn't recognize that those circumstances were temporary and the pricing would eventually return to normal once the world returned to normal that isn't Tesla's fault.

And in case anyone else is having trouble understanding the consequences of changing supply and demand. In a few years when the demand for the cybertruck cools down and Tesla's ability to produce them has increased, the prices will probably be much closer to the originally announced prices. If you are going to be angry about paying a higher price to get in one now vs waiting a few years, you should probably wait.

 

[cgm9999]

You should zoom out and look a bit further back in time. Tesla's prices today are almost exactly the same as they were in January of 2020.

I can't remember what, but I think I recall something happening in 2020 that caused the supply/demand curve to shift a bit. If you didn't recognize that those circumstances were temporary and the pricing would eventually return to normal once the world returned to normal that isn't Tesla's fault.

And in case anyone else is having trouble understanding the consequences of changing supply and demand. In a few years when the demand for the cybertruck cools down and Tesla's ability to produce them has increased, the prices will probably be much closer to the originally announced prices. If you are going to be angry about paying a higher price to get in one now vs waiting a few years, you should probably wait.

Whether or not Tesla's current prices are in line with Tesla prices from early 2020 isn't relevant to your statement that other car brands "were adding 5-figure "market adjustment" fees". This is demonstrably false. There was no vehicle model that saw any such thing. While Tesla did increase the prices of their vehicles substantially, car brands did not - car dealerships did. And, I explained why that difference was material and that Tesla's price hike - and later, drop - was to the detriment of the consumer.

Yes, COVID did greatly affect the supply and demand curve. No one is saying otherwise. Similarly, your statement that Tesla isn't to blame for a person's ignorance of how supply and demand works is a straw man. No one said as much. However, it is a great misrepresentation of the issue that Tesla's pricing is volatile and has royally screwed reasonable people that rightfully assumed that their Tesla purchase would pan out to be more or less typical of other vehicle purchases.

Because Tesla - unlike legacy automakers - can manipulate the price of their vehicles directly, they chose to drastically slash the price of their cars in an unexpected and unprecedented (perhaps in a non-upfront way?) move to get ahead of their ever encroaching competition. And, there's nothing wrong with this if viewed only through a very short-sided perspective that only accounts for short term profit. More to the point though, this had little to do with supply and demand, but rather, because of increasing competition from Merceds, BMW, Porsche, Rivian, Lucid, Cadillac, etc.

I digress. The spirit of this thread is that Tesla has a long established history of being less than upfront with their pricing. Beyond the aforementioned price hike/drop of their vehicles, they have advertised used Teslas as having full FSD only to turn around and remove that capability and charge the new buyer full price for FSD even though the original owner already purchased it, the whole Roadster scam, the bait and switch of the $35k Model 3, etc. Of course, all of this adds up to a lot of angry customers and rightfully so, regardless if "they understand the consequences of changing supply and demand".

Obviously, Tesla's finance people think that milking profits at the expense of customer good will is worth it. Only time will tell. And no doubt, it's Tesla's prerogative to do. Of course, that blade is double-edged though - there are plenty of prospective customers that wouldn't be caught dead in a Tesla for these (an many other reasons) and I think that's quite a reasonable position to have given their track record.

As one of these people, I always find it bizarre and fascinating in equal parts when someone caught up in Elon's reality distortion field can't for the life of them understand why everyone isn't joining them in getting on their knees and pulling their hair back in a ponytail. $120k is a lot for a vehicle to many people. It's especially so when it's a Tesla and you have no idea if Elon is going to drop the price of the Tesla you just bought last month drastically. Increasing risk in your product or service the eyes of your customer is a surefire way to tank a business and that's precisely part and parcel of Tesla's way of doing business.

 

[BrianR1S]

I was an early rivian res holder who decided to wait for the cybertruck. Now after 4 years, this is a double slap in the face. I finally got the email to order, and they have increased the cyberbeast price to $119,990. I feel really let down, and will likely end up with a quad motor rivian instead.

ugh. Gotta pull the trigger at some point. Prob some good gently used ones (Riv) out there as well that are more reasonably priced. Have been in our '23 R1S for 7 months now and feel like I have a bargain since it was $70K after tax/state rebates. Good luck and you may want to check out dual motor since you'll save some $ and have better range too.

 

[Ssaygmo]

ugh. Gotta pull the trigger at some point. Prob some good gently used ones (Riv) out there as well that are more reasonably priced. Have been in our '23 R1S for 7 months now and feel like I have a bargain since it was $70K after tax/state rebates. Good luck and you may want to check out dual motor since you'll save some $ and have better range too.

Thanks, that’s on the radar. At this point I’m still considering keeping my massively depreciated m3 long range as a daily and buying a jeep rubicon or canyon at4x or something as an adventure vehicle until ev batteries mature a bit more and chargers are ubiquitous like gas stations. Was hoping that 500 mile cybertruck would solve that.

 

[Bee]

Welcome. We're like the Tesla without Musk which is really the perfect Tesla.

 

[COdogman]

Thanks, that’s on the radar. At this point I’m still considering keeping my massively depreciated m3 long range as a daily and buying a jeep rubicon or canyon at4x or something as an adventure vehicle until ev batteries mature a bit more and chargers are ubiquitous like gas stations. Was hoping that 500 mile cybertruck would solve that.

The GMC Canyon AT4X costs $57k (probably more depending on where you live), gets 18 mpg and only has a range of 360 miles. Also has a 7.5 sec 0-60. It’s a nice looking truck no doubt, but when you start comparing spec for spec a realize how much driving one of these gas trucks actually costs in real life, you really aren’t saving much.

Yes, the Rivian costs more, but you can get a used quad motor R1T for basically what early pricing was. Or a new dual motor for not much more. Either is a MUCH more fun vehicle than any ICE GMC….

 

[R1TS]

I’m confused.

You can just not opt to skip the Foundation Series and wait for a regular version, no?

 

[Rivian Head]

One of the many reasons why I left Tesla after having had at least 10 of their cars over 9 years. Loved the cars, grew to hate the company and moved on.

This is typical Tesla. They operate on the "because we can" moniker. Just as they did with their other vehicles, they raise prices when they know customers will pay them. At one point, a loaded Model S was up to a stupidly ridiculous $170,000. At the time, they had more customers than cars to sell and there were customers willing to pay stupid prices.



Then, when supply increases and is higher than demand, they drop the prices to almost ridiculously low levels, instantly devaluing all of the existing cars on the road.

Unlike most big manufacturers that set a price and stick with it for at least a year, Tesla gouges its customers whenever they are able to. Naturally, the Cybertruck is the hot new toy and there are many that want it and want it now. So, they jack up the prices accordingly as there are more customers that want it than trucks available. Eventually, they'll produce more than they can sell and prices will come down to around $80,000 or $90,000 for the top trim level.

Again, love the cars, but hate the company. No respect for a company that has no respect for its customers. Tesla has always had the attitude of "our way or no way" and "don't like it, don't buy it", until they get desperate, as they are now in trying to sell the Model S, X, 3 & Y.

While they produce the best electric vehicles available, I absolutely won't buy another one because of business practice. Eventually, there will be enough competition and maybe then they'll change. But for now, their customer service is just horrible.

I can’t complain about what Tesla does with its pricing. When the price went down, I grabbed both a model Y and model X. Both are fabulous cars.
I will grab a CT when the market cools off, and their manufacturing efficiency catches up. At over 100k, market will eventually cool off after the initial enthusiasm. It’s almost like buying stocks. My family has owned multiple Teslas and Rivians.
While both are great vehicles, we all prefer Tesla, mainly because of software and better driver assist system.

 

[Dark-Fx]

I can’t complain about what Tesla does with its pricing. When the price went down, I grabbed both a model Y and model X. Both are fabulous cars.
I will grab a CT when the market cools off, and their manufacturing efficiency catches up. At over 100k, market will eventually cool off after the initial enthusiasm. It’s almost like buying stocks. My family has owned multiple Teslas and Rivians.
While both are great vehicles, we all prefer Tesla, mainly because of software and better driver assist system.

Another weirdo with Rivian in their username that says "Tesla is better".

 

[EVnut]

If I recall right, Rivian did the same thing to us 2 or 3 years ago. However, they actually said what the price was on the website with your reservation. Then when it was time for delivery they raised the price. (then they went back to the honored price after we all complained) However, Tesla hasn't even officially announced the price of the Cyberbeast model. It's just rumors. So, you're upset that the rumored price has went up? I think you'd be more upset on what Rivian actually did to us 2-3 years ago.

Sponsored