20" Inch Affordable high efficiency 20" wheels and 33" tires options (275/60R20)

[anthonysfl]

That tire is something, do you feel it has any downsides? Width is borderline, so is load, but any handling or ride characteristics that you feel are negatives? Also, what is your 80% range indicator? Thanks for adding this data!

I really don’t have any negatives other than I wish it was purpose made for EV’s with foam inside. I might switch to the new Michelin defender Ltx/ms2 when these are done for.
I drive the vehicle for what it is, a very comfortable SUV. I have sports cars to go fast around turns in. I saw someone on cars and bids put 285/45/21 on their S. Personally I think it’s super silly, putting sports car tires on a 7k suv to “handle better”. Lol the thing handles great for what it is. And definitely not worth the risk going below 115 on weight rating.
That is my only complaint is the range indicator but I’ve gotten used to it. I didn’t feel like paying to have the car reprogrammed so my gps is always off. I always get to destination with more miles than initially expected. And I have reset my energy drive mode tab a couple times and it still says 320 in conserve even though I went 343. AP mode is more accurate at 290 on full charge. At 75% this morning leaving for work it said 220.

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[ksurfier]

Battery temp makes the biggest % difference for me, so if comparing efficiencies, you need to afix a few factors:
-Tire pressure
-battery temp (external temp don't matter none if it's a short test run)
-equal conditions (wet, dry, rain, etc... So long as it's the same for each test you do)
-Route and average speed
-Drive mode/height
-cabin conditions
-carrying weight (less burritos = better efficiency @COdogman )

I'm about to rotate my 2363 ATs, if it
Screw it, for science, I'll swap early and test my 3 275/60R20 setups: AS+3 on stock staples, AS+3 on 2363s, AT3W on 2363s. Give me a couple weeks to squeeze in a couple more ski trips and I'll post results.

All great points, hard to control outside temp, I say run the Air/AC at 60 if cold outside and 70 if hot out, but only at low fan speed. Tires should be 48-50 psi cold, ideally it should be a consistent speed, ideally 3 ranges (80-65-50 mph), can then see speed and efficiency relationship.

 

[LL75]

Here is some data. My R1S quad large is programmed to 22’s. I have OEM 20 brights with 275/60/20 Pirelli. I did a 100% to 0 driving test for my use case. Took 10 days to drain. 343 miles in conserve. I did the same test in AP mode, 293 miles.
On highway trip on FL turnpike I see 2-2.25. My S is 5-10% more efficient than my R1T with 21’s, large quad.
R1T lifetime over 5700 miles was 2.31.
Current lifetime with my S at 6800 miles is 2.48.

That is damn awesome number. I hope my general grabber would get that 2.9 number. Don't forget that the r1s is not as aerodynamic as the r1t, so your r1s is way more efficient with the 20" than your R1t with 21".

 

[SkiLizardHead2]

Battery temp makes the biggest % difference for me, so if comparing efficiencies, you need to afix a few factors:
-Tire pressure
-battery temp (external temp don't matter none if it's a short test run)
-equal conditions (wet, dry, rain, etc... So long as it's the same for each test you do)
-Route and average speed
-Drive mode/height
-cabin conditions
-carrying weight (less burritos = better efficiency @COdogman )

I'm about to rotate my 2363 ATs, if it
Screw it, for science, I'll swap early and test my 3 275/60R20 setups: AS+3 on stock staples, AS+3 on 2363s, AT3W on 2363s. Give me a couple weeks to squeeze in a couple more ski trips and I'll post results.

Agree Battery temp is significant in determining efficiency. Another factor that I have experienced is how many miles are on tires. New tires require a breakin period (sometimes 100's to even a 1K miles) to reach their designed efficiency, also rolling resistence tends to decrease (improve) as the tire wears.

 

[anthonysfl]

That is damn awesome number. I hope my general grabber would get that 2.9 number. Don't forget that the r1s is not as aerodynamic as the r1t, so your r1s is way more efficient with the 20" than your R1t with 21".

Exactly. I also have small mud flaps and side steps on the S. No mods to the T.

 

[onthebrake]

There's a lot of great info spread out across 5-10 threads here. This post is an effort to condense the info down into one location, links to contributing threads are below:

Below is a list of 275/60R20 Tires that can be grouped into the high efficiency club, organized by weight based on the correlation of low weight and high efficiency (I know, I know, rolling resistence-schmolling resistence...), also note there is a correlation to tread depth and weight:

PSI (max)	UTQG	Examples (275/60R20)	Width / Depth (inches)	#s	All Purpose mi/kwh	eRange
51​	620 AB	Gen. Grabber HTS60 (116T)	8.6 / 10/32​	34​	2.50​	320-358
51​	800 AA	Pirelli AS+3 (115H)	8.3 / 11/32​	38​	2.40​	307-345
50​	820 BA	Defender LTX M/S2 (116H)	7.8 / 11/32​	40​	2.35​	301-339
51​	640 AA	Kumho Crugen HP71 (115H)	7.8 / 11/32​	42​	2.30​	294-333
51​	720 AA	Conti. TerrainCntct H/T (115H)	8.9 / 12/32​	44​	2.25​	288-326
51​	680 AA	Kumho Road Vent. AT52 (115T) SNOW	9.1 / 13.5/32​	46​	2.20​	282-320
50​	640 AB	OEM Pirelli AT+ (116H) [275/65R20]	9.1 / 13/32​	48​	2.15​	275-314
50​	640 AB	Gen. Grabber A/TX (116T) SNOW	9.6 / 14/32​	50​	2.10​	269-307

* Add ~0.3 mi/kwh for Conserve mode; range will increase by ~30 miles or so...Assumes 65 mph, flat terrain, no wind, no cargo/passengers.

20" OEM QM efficiency (EPA): 289 mi / 2.1 mi/kwh
21" OEM QM efficiency (EPA): 321 mi / 2.4 mi/kwh
22" OEM QM efficiency (EPA): 303 mi / 2.2 mi/kwh

My top choices come mainly from wanting a wider tire, they are in order:

1) General Grabber HTS60 [320 m. Range; 620 AB] - Best efficiency/range and 116 (but only 10/32 tread - ~20k miles expected). Also a A/T tire in XL and D size (65 psi) available. Cost per mile of $0.05 for tires plus $0.15 for electricity. $200 per 1,000 miles operational cost.

2) Pirelli AS+3 [307 m. Range; 800 AA] - Excellent efficiency and UTQG, width and 115 not so great, only 11/32 tread, also only 20-25k miles expected. Cost per mile of $0.06 for tires plus $0.16 for electricity. $220 per 1,000 miles operational cost.

3) Continental TerrainContact H/T [288 m. Range; 720 AA], special note for #3, it's also a high performance tire, rating much higher on wet performance and stopping distance....potentially 30k miles. If you're in a rainy area this is prob. the best choice. Cost per mile of $0.04 for tires plus $0.17 for electricity. $210 per 1,000 miles operational cost.

All 3 come with a 65-70k warranty.

The OEM 20" tire has an operational cost of almost $300 per 1,000 miles...

Discussions on 275/60 tire choices:
R1T 20" AT Replacement Tires?
My R1T's Most Miles Driven on 1 Tank of Battery = 366.5 miles
Time For Some New 20" Tires
20 Inch MICHELIN® X® LT A/S 2 (XL 275/60R20)
20" tire recommendations
Michelin Defender LTX Platinum
Weight rating RAM 2363 wheels?
What's the best wheel size for range and tire longevity?
Hello from Discount Tire!
20-inch [AW09] Forged Wheels by Atomic Wheels
20" Michelin Defender LTX Platinum Tires review -- For all of you thinking about a 20" tire! Your wait is over!

Stock size is 275/65/20’s though.

 

[ksurfier]

Stock size is 275/65/20’s though.

You have some reading to do…

 

[evguy]

Thank you! Per Rivian's configurator, the EPA range for the 20" OEM QM is 274, not 289. (FWIW, my range shows as 274 when charged to 100% in All Purpose, and I've averaged a little over 2.1 mi/kWh after 28,000 miles, all on OEM Pirellis.)

 

[ksurfier]

274 is with spare tire plus underbody.
289 is without
Can subtract 0.1 from shown above if you have the spare+underbody...
Prob. subtract 0.1 for every ~500 pounds cargo added too...
Riviot - more factors to consider!
Need some testers to tow a 5,000 pound trailer too, that should be fun!

 

[Riviot]

Stock size is 275/65/20’s though.

 

[evguy]

274 is with spare tire plus underbody.
289 is without
Can subtract 0.1 from shown above if you have the spare+underbody...

I see, thanks. I don't have the underbody or the spare (Nov 2022 delivery), so I wonder if the vehicle onboard range estimator just assumes that every R1S with 20" wheels has them now?

 

[ksurfier]

I see, thanks. I don't have the underbody or the spare (Nov 2022 delivery), so I wonder if the vehicle onboard range estimator just assumes that every R1S with 20" wheels has them now?

Not sure, but in the frenzy that was 2023 for Rivian, anything is possible...
I made some updates/tweaks to the table based on input, please if anyone sees anything that needs fixing, let me know and will update it (specially if you have a 275/60 tire not listed and you are getting better than 20" OEM ~2.2 MPK (miles per kwh). I have no interest in doing this for the 275/65R20 OEM tires....but someone might (there are few to none that are better suited than the OEM tire...at least from a pure efficiency standpoint, unfortunately looks and efficiency don't really mix)...

 

[ksurfier]

like @Mtbaddict I'm curious how you're calculating the various efficiency and range numbers.

Unfortunately it's proprietary

 

[ksurfier]

Also, if there are any guinea pigs out there would love to see how a 285/65R20 runs. Particularly the Defender LTX M/S. It’s a 55# tire that’s 34.5 inches tall and 9” width…a perfect all season that should be able to do it all but not as efficiently…guessing it will be 2.0 average MPK…load rating is a massive 3860 # per tire….can likely run it at 45 psi for average load 48 psi if fully loaded and or towing…

 

[ksurfier]

Here's an attempt at a template for reporting tire testing:

Any feedback appreciated!

User: longo	2.55 MPK	Tire Size:	275/60R20 (115H)
Pressure:	48 psi	Brand/Model	Pirelli / AS+3
Batt. Temp	78 F	Tire Mileage (Depth)	8,567 (7/32)
Outside Temp.	32 F	ave. Speed	​ 68​
AC/Air Temp	65 F	Miles Traveled	​ 133.5​
Fan Speed	2	kwh used	​ 52.3​
Mode	All Purpose	Burritos (lbs), xtra cargo	​ 199​
Height	Standard	Notes:	R1S QM, Flat, no wind, preconditioned

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