20" Inch Affordable high efficiency 20" wheels and 33" tires options (275/60R20)

[ksurfier]

User: SolartoEV	2.77 MPK	Tire Size:	275/60R20 (116T)
Pressure:	48 psi	Brand/Model	General / Grabber HTS60 (34#)
Batt. Temp	unk	Tire Mileage (Depth)	unk (unk)
Outside Temp.	unk	ave. Speed	38
AC/Air Temp	70 F	Miles Traveled	355 (367 uncorrected)
Fan Speed	2	kwh used	128
Mode	Conserve	Burritos (lbs), xtra cargo	unk
Height	Mixed	Date: July 2023 Notes:	R1S QM, Flat, no wind, preconditioned

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That is damn awesome number. I hope my general grabber would get that 2.9 number. Don't forget that the r1s is not as aerodynamic as the r1t, so your r1s is way more efficient with the 20" than your R1t with 21".

Making needed adjustments to SolartoEVs Jul 1, 2023 (Grabber HTS60) test we get the following for Conserve:

367 miles travelled (or 355 adjusted) / 128 kwh = 2.87 MPK (2.77 MPK adjusted).

Taking anthonysfls values and adjusting to match 128 kwh:
343.3 miles travelled / 130.6 (or adjusted 336.5/128 kwh) = 2.62 MPK (2.63 adjusted)

So, it looks like the grabbers should be at least 0.1 MPK more efficient, but we don't know all the variables involved (but average speed of 38 (AS+3 was 30) for the grabbers suggests they may be more efficient than above estimate).

But All Purpose of 2.3 MPK for AS+3 and 2.5 MPK for Grabber HTS60 seems to hold up...

Note: I think the Defender LTX M/S2 will come in right around 2.3 AP, not sure as I don't think anyone here has given a proper test (think it's a pretty new 275/60R20 tire that only became available in past couple months)...

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[FrankieJ]

I really don’t have any negatives other than I wish it was purpose made for EV’s with foam inside. I might switch to the new Michelin defender Ltx/ms2 when these are done for.
I drive the vehicle for what it is, a very comfortable SUV. I have sports cars to go fast around turns in. I saw someone on cars and bids put 285/45/21 on their S. Personally I think it’s super silly, putting sports car tires on a 7k suv to “handle better”. Lol the thing handles great for what it is. And definitely not worth the risk going below 115 on weight rating.
That is my only complaint is the range indicator but I’ve gotten used to it. I didn’t feel like paying to have the car reprogrammed so my gps is always off. I always get to destination with more miles than initially expected. And I have reset my energy drive mode tab a couple times and it still says 320 in conserve even though I went 343. AP mode is more accurate at 290 on full charge. At 75% this morning leaving for work it said 220.

I am sure this has been covered already. I am still a bit confused as to why the treads are suggesting a tire size different than the 20” AT Pirelli’s. If it’s efficiency gains it just feels like the impacts to speedometer readings and range isn’t worth any potential gains. There are plenty of 275/65/20 choices.

 

[ksurfier]

There are not plenty of OEM 20” tire choices under 50# (just 1 really).

The OEM 20” tire is not a true AT.
21 and 22” tires are both 33”, the size 275/60R20 matches at 33” diameter.

Many people here want an efficient (2.4 - 2.5 MPK) road tire for daily driving or being able to drive longer (300+ miles) between charging.

Top 3 tires achieve about the same MPK as the OEM 21” setup.

Some people may want an AT that is more efficient, the post shows how a 45# AT is significantly more efficient than a 64# AT.

At the end of the day we are talking differences of only 1-2” diameter and 0.5-1.5” in tire width.

Some people have been surprised by the low MPK from their tire selection, hopefully this helps them avoid being surprised.

 

[anthonysfl]

^ I would go a step further and say the 275/60/20 AS tire setup is more efficient than the OEM 21’s. Smaller wheels are more efficient, regardless of EV or ICE. My S, with some un-aerodynamic mods is more efficient than my R1T on 21’s.

The most efficient range setup would be 275/60/20 AS tire with the Martian wheels. Those wheels are the most aerodynamic and lightest 20” wheel I’ve seen. I don’t feel like spending more money after buying the OEM 20 brights and still seeing the efficient gains already.

https://martianwheels.com/products/rv1-forged-wheels

 

[RivianBowerbird]

As a data point, I have the 275/65/20 Continental TerrainContact HT. They are a very heavy tire classed with the LT designation. IIRC 5 or 6 pounds more than the stock ATs per tires? Over 4,000 miles I have not noticed any increases in efficiency. In fact I'd say that it's very slightly less than the stock Pirelli ATs. They are vastly better on pretty much every other front, but the lack of added range surprised me.

 

[caiudalmau]

There's a lot of great info spread out across 5-10 threads here. This post is an effort to condense the info down into one location, links to contributing threads are below:

Below is a list of 275/60R20 Tires that can be grouped into the high efficiency club, organized by weight based on the correlation of low weight and high efficiency (I know, I know, rolling resistence-schmolling resistence...), also note there is a correlation to tread depth and weight:

The following equations describe the relationship between MPK (y, miles per kwh) and Tire Weight (x, pounds):
All Purpose Tire Efficiency = 3.35 MPK - (2.5% of Tire Weight)
Conserve Tire Efficiency = 3.7 MPK - (2.5% of Tire Weight)

PSI (max)	UTQG	Examples (275/60R20)	Width / Depth (inches)	#s	All Purpose mi/kwh (MPK)	Daily range in AP (80-20%)**	100% eRange
51​	620 AB	Gen. Grabber HTS60 (116T)	8.6 / 10/32​	34​	2.50​	194 [344]	320-358
51​	800 AA	Pirelli AS+3 (115H)	8.3 / 11/32​	38​	2.40​	186 [330]	307-345
50​	820 BA	Defender LTX M/S2 (116H)	7.8 / 11/32​	40​	2.35​	182 [323]	301-339
51​	640 AA	Kumho Crugen HP71 (115H)	7.8 / 11/32​	42​	2.30​	178 [316]	294-333
51​	720 AA	Conti. TerrainCntct H/T (115H)	8.9 / 12/32​	44​	2.25​	174 [309]	288-326
50​	500 AB	Nitto Ridge Grappler (116T)	8.9 / 13.5/32	45	2.23​	172 [306]	284-322
51​	680 AA	Kumho Road Vent. AT52 (115T) SNOW	9.1 / 13.5/32​	46​	2.20​	171 [303]	282-320
50​	640 AB	OEM Pirelli AT+ (116H) [275/65R20]	9.1 / 13/32​	48​	2.15​	167 [296]	275-314
50​	640 AB	Gen. Grabber A/TX (116T) SNOW	9.6 / 14/32​	50​	2.10​	163 [289]	269-307
80​	none	Mich. Defend. Platinum (126S) [275/65R20]	8.9 / 14/32	60	1.85​	143 [254]	237-288
80​	none	Gen. Grabber A/TX (126S) SNOW [275/65R20]	8.9 / 16/32	64	1.7​	130 [232]	218-269

* Add ~0.3 mi/kwh for Conserve mode; range will increase by ~30 miles or so...Assumes 65 mph, flat terrain, no wind, no cargo/passengers. But friends don't let friends use conserve mode...
**-Plus 30 minute supercharge (+60kwh)

20" OEM QM efficiency (EPA): 289 mi / 2.1 mi/kwh
21" OEM QM efficiency (EPA): 321 mi / 2.4 mi/kwh
22" OEM QM efficiency (EPA): 303 mi / 2.2 mi/kwh

My top choices come mainly from wanting a wider tire, they are in order:

1) General Grabber HTS60 [320 m. Range; 620 AB] - Best efficiency/range and 116 (but only 10/32 tread - ~20k miles expected). Also a A/T tire in XL and D size (65 psi) available. Cost per mile of $0.05 for tires plus $0.15 for electricity. $200 per 1,000 miles operational cost.

2) Pirelli AS+3 [307 m. Range; 800 AA] - Excellent efficiency and UTQG, width and 115 not so great, only 11/32 tread, also only 20-25k miles expected. Cost per mile of $0.06 for tires plus $0.16 for electricity. $220 per 1,000 miles operational cost.

3) Continental TerrainContact H/T [288 m. Range; 720 AA], special note for #3, it's also a high performance tire, rating much higher on wet performance and stopping distance....potentially 30k miles. If you're in a rainy area this is prob. the best choice. Cost per mile of $0.04 for tires plus $0.17 for electricity. $210 per 1,000 miles operational cost.

All 3 come with a 65-70k warranty.

The OEM 20" tire has an operational cost of almost $300 per 1,000 miles...

Discussions on 275/60 tire choices:
R1T 20" AT Replacement Tires?
My R1T's Most Miles Driven on 1 Tank of Battery = 366.5 miles
Time For Some New 20" Tires
20 Inch MICHELIN® X® LT A/S 2 (XL 275/60R20)
20" tire recommendations
Michelin Defender LTX Platinum
Weight rating RAM 2363 wheels?
What's the best wheel size for range and tire longevity?
Hello from Discount Tire!
20-inch [AW09] Forged Wheels by Atomic Wheels
20" Michelin Defender LTX Platinum Tires review -- For all of you thinking about a 20" tire! Your wait is over!

General disclaimer: Tire sizing and performance is convoluted and confusing, above info is simplified and generalized so the average person can see how range and efficiency change with different tire options. There are at least 5-10 other sizes that would likely work on the 20" OEM rims or an aftermarket option. This thread focuses only on size 275/60R20 so it's straightforward. If you are even remotely thinking of doing major offroading with your Rivian than most likely none of the above options will work for you. Ideally you'd have 2-3 sets of tires like a few folks here have, 1) Winter (if applicable), 2) Offroad (if applicable), and 3) Onroad set. For winter tires, best to be `34" diameter and not super wide. For offroad, best to be 34-35" and around 10" wide, best tire onroad is 33" and between 8-9 inches wide (lightweight ~35-45#s).
For any efficiency tests, it's important to note if Conserve is being used (best to test in AP). You might be tempted by someone reporting a 275/65R20 tire (60#) getting 2.2 MPK when reality is that AP MPK is going to be ~1.8...

Nice summary. Question, what was the source for the Mich. Defend. Platinum range?
I've seen several data in several posts, but none that had enough data to be a reliable reference. Some were showing 2.02 and 2.5 and 1.7, so it was kind of all over the place, what made you set it to 1.85?

 

[ksurfier]

Nice summary. Question, what was the source for the Mich. Defend. Platinum range?
I've seen several data in several posts, but none that had enough data to be a reliable reference. Some were showing 2.02 and 2.5 and 1.7, so it was kind of all over the place, what made you set it to 1.85?

Someone posted a Conserve mode rating of ~2.1 MPK, so the All Purpose would be somewhere around 1.8 MPK
This is a guide and not meant to be exact, that tire might very well be 2.0 in AP (but not likely)...

 

[ksurfier]

As a data point, I have the 275/65/20 Continental TerrainContact HT. They are a very heavy tire classed with the LT designation. IIRC 5 or 6 pounds more than the stock ATs per tires? Over 4,000 miles I have not noticed any increases in efficiency. In fact I'd say that it's very slightly less than the stock Pirelli ATs. They are vastly better on pretty much every other front, but the lack of added range surprised me.

For that tire there are 4 options would fit 20" rim
LTs are 57-58#s and others are 44#s...
115H version is needed to meet PSI of >48...

:

 

[caiudalmau]

Someone posted a Conserve mode rating of ~2.1 MPK, so the All Purpose would be somewhere around 1.8 MPK
This is a guide and not meant to be exact, that tire might very well be 2.0 in AP (but not likely)...

Thanks, I have asked several of the people that have changed to the platinum for a real range reading and I am still waiting on answers.. Some posted initial reads, which are obviously not enough data and also is when the tire is less efficient. Will see what is the range after more milleage. Personally, I don't need that much range on 99% of the year, obviously more range is better electric bill and a really nice to have for road trips. On the other hand I love how the platinum look and the fact that don't need a recallibration from OEMs

 

[ksurfier]

Thanks, I have asked several of the people that have changed to the platinum for a real range reading and I am still waiting on answers.. Some posted initial reads, which are obviously not enough data and also is when the tire is less efficient. Will see what is the range after more milleage. Personally, I don't need that much range on 99% of the year, obviously more range is better electric bill and a really nice to have for road trips. On the other hand I love how the platinum look and the fact that don't need a recallibration from OEMs

The range is prob. more important than most people realize:
1) Tires (this is why we are posting, right?) - $900 vs $1800 per set is a big difference, right?
2) Fuel - If you are stuck charging on the road and paying $0.40 to $0.50 per KWh you can see how it adds up quick.
3) Battery/Motors/Maintenance - Things start to get interesting once you look at replacing your battery every 200,000 miles plus or minus. If you are only getting 1.6 MPK, that means a full battery cycle nets about 200 miles. At 2.5 MPK you get more than 300 miles per cycle. If the battery makes it to 1,000 cycles (shouldn't be a problem), you are looking at replacing your battery at 200k miles vs 300k miles. Assuming it will cost $150 per KWh, cost to replace it is nearly $20k. So for the 1.6 MPK you are also factoring in batter replacement cost of $0.1 per mile, plus charging and tire costs of $0.35 per mile...all the sudden you are spending $0.45 per mile!

On the other hand, the 2.5 MPK tire costs significantly less overall, around $0.30 per mile.
15,000 miles per year on 60#+ plus tires is ~$6,750 vs $4,500 for the <40# tires getting 2.5 MPK.

You can see how this spread out over 10-20 years ballons to the bigger tires costing an extra $45k!!! Who knew?

Show your spouse this thread so they know why you need to spend $3,000 on a set of lightweight 20" rims plus the Grabber/Defender/AS+3!!!! (can someone write me a thread similar to above so I can show it to my wife?????).
Note - you could do a similar comparison to other OEM tire options (some cost ~$2k and only get 15k miles or less), but at least with those you aren't taking the hit to MPK (but likely spending double what you need to on tires).

 

[Nine_One_Six_R1S]

Thank you for sharing this OP.

I am mostly on AP with an Offroad trip every 2 months or so.

so If I want to try something different when the Pirellis AT bite the dust and want to go with the Gen. Grabber A/TX (116T) SNOW I would only lose .05 per kwh efficiency or MPK? That does not sound too bad and may get a bit better Offroad performance based on how it looks like.

Also, what is the meaning of the SNOW in bold? Just that the posted range was done in Snow conditions?

 

[ksurfier]

Thank you for sharing this OP.

I am mostly on AP with an Offroad trip every 2 months or so.

so If I want to try something different when the Pirellis AT bite the dust and want to go with the Gen. Grabber A/TX (116T) SNOW I would only lose .05 per kwh efficiency or MPK? That does not sound too bad and may get a bit better Offroad performance based on how it looks like.

Also, what is the meaning of the SNOW in bold? Just that the posted range was done in Snow conditions?

Yes, but that's a guess/best case scenario, could be a little less but imagine equal to 20" OEMs. Severe Snow Rated tire (you could bypass chain control under typical conditions, usually roads are closed before they require 4WD vehicles to chain up)...

If you don't need snow rating then the Nitto Ridge Grappler (116T) could also be an option for you...

 

[caiudalmau]

The range is prob. more important than most people realize:
1) Tires (this is why we are posting, right?) - $900 vs $1800 per set is a big difference, right?
2) Fuel - If you are stuck charging on the road and paying $0.40 to $0.50 per KWh you can see how it adds up quick.
3) Battery/Motors/Maintenance - Things start to get interesting once you look at replacing your battery every 200,000 miles plus or minus. If you are only getting 1.6 MPK, that means a full battery cycle nets about 200 miles. At 2.5 MPK you get more than 300 miles per cycle. If the battery makes it to 1,000 cycles (shouldn't be a problem), you are looking at replacing your battery at 200k miles vs 300k miles. Assuming it will cost $150 per KWh, cost to replace it is nearly $20k. So for the 1.6 MPK you are also factoring in batter replacement cost of $0.1 per mile, plus charging and tire costs of $0.35 per mile...all the sudden you are spending $0.45 per mile!

On the other hand, the 2.5 MPK tire costs significantly less overall, around $0.30 per mile.
15,000 miles per year on 60#+ plus tires is ~$6,750 vs $4,500 for the <40# tires getting 2.5 MPK.

You can see how this spread out over 10-20 years ballons to the bigger tires costing an extra $45k!!! Who knew?

Show your spouse this thread so they know why you need to spend $3,000 on a set of lightweight 20" rims plus the Grabber/Defender/AS+3!!!! (can someone write me a thread similar to above so I can show it to my wife?????).
Note - you could do a similar comparison to other OEM tire options (some cost ~$2k and only get 15k miles or less), but at least with those you aren't taking the hit to MPK (but likely spending double what you need to on tires).

Sure, you have a lot of good points, and I didn't mean to imply that range it's not important, I meant is not the only factor, at least not for my case.
1) Some tires like the OEM don't last long and cost a lot so yes it's important, the Defender Plat seems that would be more expensive but last longer
2) Sure, but again not my case, in a year I've used EA 5 times and EvGo 1 and Chargepoint 2. Most of my charge is at home during solar hours, so I have almost free charge.
3)You are right, more cycles of battery mean less live, but fast-charging instead of level 2, long charges, going really low or really high will have a lot more impact than total cycles, I usually charge 50%-75%.

So yes, you have good points but not in my case. I thought about range all the time when buying it and originally, I had the 21s in my configuration because of that. I thought I would regret buying the 20s and I am so happy I did, I almost never have to worry about range and every time I see a R1S or R1T with 21s it asures me it was the best decision since I don't like those.

 

[EarlyAdptr]

Can someone confirm for me a question about R1S spare tire?

I'm planning on putting on 275-60-R20 tires soon. In an emergency, would it be ok to use the spare tire supplied with the R1S (presumably the OEM size of 275-65-R20)? How many miles could I travel on such tire (thinking if I'm far from a service center)?

 

[ksurfier]

Can someone confirm for me a question about R1S spare tire?

I'm planning on putting on 275-60-R20 tires soon. In an emergency, would it be ok to use the spare tire supplied with the R1S (presumably the OEM size of 275-65-R20)? How many miles could I travel on such tire (thinking if I'm far from a service center)?

I would think in a worse case scenario you could put the spare on the rear and drive in conserve (if for some reason it could even be an issue).

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