Deer on I-80...Not Visible in DriveCam

[R1Thor]

On our way back from Erie to Lancaster (PA) this past Sunday, two deer were on I-80 as I was cruising along at 79 mph. Okay - not unusual in this part of the state and I was definitely on the lookout for them. I slowed down to 40 mph and let them cross the interstate and run up into the woods. A couple of things:

• Does anyone know if deer would show up on the drivers screen? Cars, trucks, motorcycles, bikes, and people do. The deer did NOT appear on my screen, but I may have been too far away (yet still too close for my comfort).
• The DriveCam video sucks! I know others have commented on it in the past, but I was really surprised to review the footage and could barely see a blur in the distance when they crossed the road. The only way I knew I was in the right spot on the video was because I could tell I slowed down (the white lines slowed down) and you could see a noticeable difference when reviewing the right camera view (but still no deer). I had visions of editing the clip and showing the two young deer crossing the highway, but it couldn't happen.

I love the idea of the DriveCam and that it captures the video from all four cameras, but I guess I'll have to wait until I buy my next R1S for HD video (or buy a dashcam).

Edited to change "LIDAR" to "drivers screen"...

FWIW: 1-80 is terrible for deer, AND even the 'best' systems don't see them 'soon enough.' My wife's Forester (with Subaru's eyesight, which has multiple awards as being one of the best) was totaled ON 80 thanks to a deer coming out when she was doing 70 mph.

For better or worse, this is one of those things that we just need to continue doing our due diligence as drivers. I know at one point Mercedes was experimenting with infrared detection of roadside animals, but I don't know if that ever matured... Maybe in the future?

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[KBabione]

If you were going 40 mph and the deer had time to cross, they were at least several hundred feet away. The camera is not going to detect them that far away.

They were - I didn't expect them to show on the display, but I was hoping that I'd be able to see them in the DriveCam. It just made me wonder if they were closer if they'd show up in the display. I guess not.

 

[Windblade]

Sorry to get into the weeks... I've lived in the ADAS world for around 15 years.

The quick overview is, deer, as prey animals, have evolved to blend into their surrounding within the visible spectrum (approximately 400 to 800 nanometers wavelength) relying on darkness and natural cover for concealment. The headlamps supply illumination for visibility at night, but not enough in a passenger vehicle environment (don't want to blind other drivers).

Radar operates on much longer wavelength, around 3,000 nanometers, and functions as an active illuminator, rendering it capable of detecting objects without the need for additional light sources like headlights. Despite this advantage, radar imagery tends to be relatively "blurry", particularly when detecting objects such as deer. Radar exhibits better reflectivity response for metallic surfaces like cars, trucks, etc., but relies on sophisticated algorithms to decipher the limited data.

In contrast, LiDAR is an alternative solution that is also an active illumination system, and is offered by various Tier 1 and startup vendors at wavelengths of 905, 1064, or 1550 nanometers. Notably, these wavelengths capture fine and the surface reflectivity of animal “hair” making LiDAR a promising technology for object detection and navigation.

Within the current business paradigm, 2D color cameras are the most mature and cost-effective option. Radar, with nearly a century of development behind it, follows as a relatively affordable alternative or addition. The newest technology, LiDAR, while not prohibitively expensive, is still costly but is being adopted by several companies for their autonomous driving and safety features.

As LiDAR costs continue to decrease with increased production and technological advancements, we’ll see these adopted.

I wish I had them on my R1S today.

 

[Glembi2]

Disclaimer: my memory is getting better as I age. I can now remember things that never happened

Wasn’t there a study or two a year ago commenting about the usefulness of deer whistles on vehicles?

The one I remember was that light bars and increased downfield lighting did little to avoid deer strikes. Just gives the deer more time to get dazzled by your headlights.

The thing that did make a difference was illuminating the front of the vehicle so the deer could see a thing approaching, not just a light. If so, one would figure the Rivian light bar would be helpful to let the deer know something (not just a light) is heading their way.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

Disclaimer: my memory is getting better as I age. I can now remember things that never happened

Wasn’t there a study or two a year ago commenting about the usefulness of deer whistles on vehicles?

The one I remember was that light bars and increased downfield lighting did little to avoid deer strikes. Just gives the deer more time to get dazzled by your headlights.

The thing that did make a difference was illuminating the front of the vehicle so the deer could see a thing approaching, not just a light. If so, one would figure the Rivian light bar would be helpful to let the deer know something (not just a light) is heading their way.

I have a recording of a deer appearing in my lane when I was driving our R1S at 50 mph. The recording shows it just the way I remembered it: One moment there was no hint of the deer, and the next moment it was standing in front of my left headlight.

I can say that the R1S' brakes were fully satisfactory! We probably came within 30 feet of hitting the deer, who scampered away while we were taking a deep breath. The Incident Cam worked exactly as designed, so I have a record of the incident. Fortunately, we knew that the Rivian might be hurt if we hit the deer, but we likely wouldn't.

If it takes Lidar to see this before I do, bring on the lidar! Please please please. I'll buy a new vehicle if needed, to get that level of safety.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Not that this contributes to this discussion one bit, but does anyone know if animals show up on the dash view like people and zombies do on halloween?

Get a T-Rex costume please and report back.

 

[Glembi2]

Ah - found it.

https://wildlife.org/new-lighting-system-helps-deer-avoid-vehicles-at-night/

Edit: better article
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.3187

 

[Dave Cundiff]

Ah - found it.

https://wildlife.org/new-lighting-system-helps-deer-avoid-vehicles-at-night/

Edit: better article
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.3187

Thanks, @Glembi2, for posting original sources!

The second article has much more scientific detail. The first article provided simple and helpful perspective that made the second article easier to understand. You presented them in the best order, I thought.

Interesting that the researchers' best deer spotting tool was infrared:

"We equipped the truck with a forward-looking infrared (FLIR) camera (PathFinderIR thermal imaging system, FLIR Systems, Goleta, California, USA) mounted to the passenger-side door mirror. The FLIR camera was aimed straight ahead along the road such that deer could be detected at night on or near the road up to ~800 m away, many times further than was possible with vehicle headlights alone."

800 meters is about a half-mile -- WAY beyond the illumination range of most headlights. In theory, using infrared, it wouldn't be difficult to spot warm-blooded wild animals a half mile away. The difficulties would come in the interpretation of infrared images, which I presume would involve a four-part sequence of analysis:

(1) "Is that an animal, or some other kind of warm thing?"
(2) "If it's an animal, is it large enough to be of concern to my driver?"
(3) "If it's large enough to be of concern, is it in this traffic lane (the lane may curve)?"
(4) "If it's not in this traffic lane, could it dart into this traffic lane before we get there?"

***

My most recent crash was a low-speed deer collision in daylight in fall 2016. I was driving a minivan that my mechanics had loaned me. The deer ran off, hopefully just with muscle bruises. The broken headlight cost about $120 to fix. The mechanics weren't mad at all. They were amazed -- they said it had been a long time since they had seen a deer collision with such little damage. I paid for the headlight and hoped that the deer was out there somewhere, alive but cursing my name!

Since then, when I see deer or elk near the road, I treat them much as I would treat really large and really fast three-year-old humans. If they are in a place where they could possibly dart in front of me, I assume they will all do the most foolish thing possible, at the worst moment possible. If it is at all safe to slow down, I slow to about five miles an hour -- or even stop -- and I proceed as slowly as I can safely do so.

No more deer crashes since I adopted that very cautious approach. A few near misses -- one of them with a mother elk and calf. The mother wasn't in danger herself, but the calf was. The mother looked even more afraid than the calf did!

I'd love to have infrared or lidar technology making us, and the animals, even safer.

Best to all!

 

[CharonPDX]

Not that this contributes to this discussion one bit, but does anyone know if animals show up on the dash view like people and zombies do on halloween?

It does not.

At least, it didn't when I had one of these blokes pass 10 feet in front of me (while stopped, then I went between them and pulled over to take the pictures looking back.)

 

[Zoidz]

Thanks for posting, interesting results. It would appear our RIvians might have an slight advantage since it appears to make some deer get out of the way as opposed to standing still.

"We found support for our prediction that road-crossing behavior by deer would increase with the addition of the light bar, ostensibly because more deer reacted (i.e., moved in response) to the approaching vehicle when the vehicle’s frontal surface was illuminated. However, once deer began to move in response to the vehicle, they did not cross more often when the light bar was on (Fig. 4). Also, the increased likelihood of movement (and thus road-crossing behavior) when the light bar was on did not appear to increase the risk of collision, because most road crossings occurred well before the 50-m threshold defining a dangerous interaction (Fig. 3). In these cases, the driver likely would not have been aware the deer crossed the road."

I've done my own informal experiments with deer and strong lights for years. At any given time, I have 3 to 10 deer that live on my farm or on neighboring farms. I frequently use a high powered Fat Max flashlight (2200 lumens, lights up 1/4 mile out) to look for deer when I let my dog out at night, because she has guarding/herding instinct and will chase deer in a heartbeat.

If I see a deer and just hold the flashlight steady on it, they will freeze for a 30 seconds or more. However, if I wiggle the flashlight so the beam is on and off of them, they will typically run after about 5 or 6 flashes. It seems like the on/off flashing is interpreted as a threat, where steady birght lights are not, or maybe are even "mesmerizing".

 

[KBabione]

No evidence to back this up, but I wonder if the sound of an EV is different enough from the ICE vehicles to which they are accustomed and that might serve as a warning to them (like the deer whistles that people used to mount on their bumpers). I REALLY worry about hitting a deer with the Rivian...

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Thanks for posting, interesting results. It would appear our RIvians might have an slight advantage since it appears to make some deer get out of the way as opposed to standing still.

"We found support for our prediction that road-crossing behavior by deer would increase with the addition of the light bar, ostensibly because more deer reacted (i.e., moved in response) to the approaching vehicle when the vehicle’s frontal surface was illuminated. However, once deer began to move in response to the vehicle, they did not cross more often when the light bar was on (Fig. 4). Also, the increased likelihood of movement (and thus road-crossing behavior) when the light bar was on did not appear to increase the risk of collision, because most road crossings occurred well before the 50-m threshold defining a dangerous interaction (Fig. 3). In these cases, the driver likely would not have been aware the deer crossed the road."

I've done my own informal experiments with deer and strong lights for years. At any given time, I have 3 to 10 deer that live on my farm or on neighboring farms. I frequently use a high powered Fat Max flashlight (2200 lumens, lights up 1/4 mile out) to look for deer when I let my dog out at night, because she has guarding/herding instinct and will chase deer in a heartbeat.

If I see a deer and just hold the flashlight steady on it, they will freeze for a 30 seconds or more. However, if I wiggle the flashlight so the beam is on and off of them, they will typically run after about 5 or 6 flashes. It seems like the on/off flashing is interpreted as a threat, where steady birght lights are not, or maybe are even "mesmerizing".

Flashing/moving light registers as something in motion, like a charging predator. Their eyes are pointed more to the sides, limited stereo vision.

I have known motorcyclists who swear by those stick-on deer whistles. I've always been skeptical. Anyone here know?

 

[Zoidz]

At least one ADAS OEM is addressing the issue - MAGNA.

 

[Glembi2]

Flashing/moving light registers as something in motion, like a charging predator. Their eyes are pointed more to the sides, limited stereo vision.

I have known motorcyclists who swear by those stick-on deer whistles. I've always been skeptical. Anyone here know?

The second article I cited above said deer whistles are worthless:

“Unfortunately, deer whistles, the only widely available vehicle-based device intended to modify deer behavior in response to vehicles (Huijser et al. 2007, Mastro et al. 2008), are completely ineffective (Romin and Dalton 1992, Valitzski et al. 2009). ”​

 

[KBabione]

At least one ADAS OEM is addressing the issue - MAGNA.

That looks awesome! If they sold a system with camera and display that could be mounted (a la EVSportLine's CarPlay solution) in the Rivian I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

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