Heatpump is the biggest upgrade in Gen 2, imo

[R1SFamilyGuy]

Not to digress too much but I originally came here to post my efficiency findings on hot days - the steep drops are when I roll up windows and rely on the AC (hit a major road). And I am not even the type that blasts AC at 66°F. I’m happy at 72-73°.

Pictures are taken on different days and different types of rides (local, highway, mix) in random order here

Sponsored

 

[Polar]

A heat pump isn’t gonna do anything for you on hot days…

Also owning a Scandinavian Belgian built EV with a heat pump (C40) it’s not the range panacea everyone claims them to be in moderate cold. Yeah, they are more efficient than an electric resistance heater, but not a magic silver bullet to alleviate winter range reduction

*yes yes, it’ll still cool the car but it’s not magically more efficient than AC at cooling.

 

[R1SFamilyGuy]

Heat pump won’t redirect heat to warmup battery or something on hot days?

 

[sirna7]

A heat pump isn’t gonna do anything for you on hot days…

Also owning a Scandinavian Belgian built EV with a heat pump (C40) it’s not the range panacea everyone claims them to be in moderate cold. Yeah, they are more efficient than an electric resistance heater, but not a magic silver bullet to alleviate winter range reduction

WRONG!

Heat pumps are not just beneficial in cold weather; they can also improve efficiency on hot days. By working as reversible air conditioners, they provide efficient cooling by transferring heat from inside to outside, using less energy than traditional AC systems. This efficiency helps maintain a comfortable cabin temperature while conserving power. Additionally, heat pumps aid in battery temperature regulation, keeping the battery within optimal ranges and preserving its health and performance. This efficient thermal management can lead to reduced overall energy consumption, making heat pumps advantageous even during hot weather.

Source: Motorbiscuit, Move Electric

 

[Polar]

Heat pump won’t redirect heat to warmup battery or something on hot days?

No

 

[R1SFamilyGuy]

they can also improve efficiency on hot days. By working as reversible air conditioners, they provide efficient cooling by transferring heat from inside to outside, using less energy than traditional AC systems

This is similar to what I thought. Like in the SW for hot weather, they have heat pumps more than ACs. Compressor vs pump

 

[Polar]

This is similar to what I thought. Like in the SW for hot weather, they have heat pumps more than ACs. Compressor vs pump

?

They both use compressors mate. A heat pump can just effectively run backwards.

How heat pumps work.

 

[sirna7]

?

They both use compressors mate. A heat pump can just effectively run backwards.

How heat pumps work.

WRONG (again)! ...lol HVAC systems

The National Grid article on heat pumps explains their general functionality and benefits for heating and cooling buildings. However, it does not specifically address the use of heat pumps in electric vehicles.

In EVs, heat pumps provide efficient cabin heating and cooling by transferring heat rather than generating it directly, reducing energy consumption and improving range. This is a key difference from traditional HVAC systems and is crucial for optimizing EV performance in varying temperatures.

For more information specific to EVs, sources like Motorbiscuit and Move Electric are more relevant.

 

[SoCal Rob]

WRONG! (again...lol HVAC systems)

The National Grid article on heat pumps explains their general functionality and benefits for heating and cooling buildings. However, it does not specifically address the use of heat pumps in electric vehicles.

In EVs, heat pumps provide efficient cabin heating and cooling by transferring heat rather than generating it directly, reducing energy consumption and improving range. This is a key difference from traditional HVAC systems and is crucial for optimizing EV performance in varying temperatures.

For more information specific to EVs, sources like Motorbiscuit and Move Electric are more relevant.

That is true for heating where motors and the battery generate waste heat while in operation which can be transferred to the cabin, but not for cooling in hot weather as far as I know.

If the air temperature is 90 degrees and your vehicle has been sitting in the shade so the car and battery are also 90 degrees, you don’t want to cool the vehicle cabin to 70 degrees by pumping heat into the battery or motors. At that point the only thing to do with waste heat is to radiate it to the atmosphere. The same is true for traditional air conditioning.

So heating with a heat pump is more efficient in some conditions, but when everything is hot and you’re trying to cool things down the systems behave the same.

 

[FUBAR!]

A heat pump is effectively an AC that can run in “reverse” to heat. A heat pump and an AC both have compressors…a heat pump really only gives you efficiency gains when heating…(which is still great)

 

[sirna7]

That is true for heating where motors and the battery generate waste heat while in operation which can be transferred to the cabin, but not for cooling in hot weather as far as I know.

If the air temperature is 90 degrees and your vehicle has been sitting in the shade so the car and battery are also 90 degrees, you don’t want to cool the vehicle cabin to 70 degrees by pumping heat into the battery or motors. At that point the only thing to do with waste heat is to radiate it to the atmosphere. The same is true for traditional air conditioning.

So heating with a heat pump is more efficient in some conditions, but when everything is hot and you’re trying to cool things down the systems behave the same.

It's partially true that heat pumps are highly efficient for heating by using waste heat from the battery and motor. However, there's a bit of misunderstanding regarding their cooling function.

In hot weather, heat pumps efficiently transfer heat from the cabin to the outside, reducing the need for the battery to power traditional air conditioning. This method uses less energy, making it more efficient even in hot conditions. So, while they excel in heating, their cooling benefits are also significant, making heat pumps versatile and essential in EVs.

 

[SoCal Rob]

This is similar to what I thought. Like in the SW for hot weather, they have heat pumps more than ACs. Compressor vs pump

The reason warmer climates like the southwest have more heat pumps isn’t because they’re better at cooling compared to AC (a unidirectional heat pump) with all else being equal, but because the winters are typically milder. This milder winter weather means that a heat pump (essentially AC running in reverse) can transfer / pump heat from the outside to the inside of a home as an energy-efficient alternative to resistance electric heat or heat sources which rely on combustion of oil, natural gas, or propane.

 

[SoCal Rob]

It's partially true that heat pumps are highly efficient for heating by using waste heat from the battery and motor. However, there's a bit of misunderstanding regarding their cooling function.

In hot weather, heat pumps efficiently transfer heat from the cabin to the outside, reducing the need for the battery to power traditional air conditioning. This method uses less energy, making it more efficient even in hot conditions. So, while they excel in heating, their cooling benefits are also significant, making heat pumps versatile and essential in EVs.

Air conditioners also transfer heat from inside to outside by the exact same process as a heat pump. If an air conditioner did not transfer heat from the cabin to the outside then what do you understand to be cooling the cabin?

Regarding efficiency, if both systems use the same compressor, refrigerant, insulation, and heat exchangers (a.k.a. radiators or coils) then my understanding is any difference in cooling efficiency is too small to make a difference either way. So if a heat pump is trying to cool the inside by pumping heat to the outside there is no significant efficiency gain compared to an AC system doing the same thing with the same components.

 

[sirna7]

Air conditioners also transfer heat from inside to outside by the exact same process as a heat pump. If an air conditioner did not transfer heat from the cabin to the outside then what do you understand to be cooling the cabin?
Regarding efficiency, if both systems use the same compressor, refrigerant, insulation, and heat exchangers (a.k.a. radiators or coils) then my understanding is any difference in cooling efficiency is too small to make a difference either way. So if a heat pump is trying to cool the inside by pumping heat to the outside there is no significant efficiency gain compared to an AC system doing the same thing with the same components.

Heat pumps and traditional air conditioners both operate by transferring heat from inside to outside, but heat pumps are generally more efficient, particularly in EVs. This efficiency comes from the heat pump's ability to operate in a reversible cycle, allowing it to switch between heating and cooling modes.

Additionally, heat pumps integrate with the vehicle's thermal management system, optimizing the use of available heat and improving overall energy efficiency. Here's a breakdown of why heat pumps are superior in EVs:

1. Higher Efficiency: Heat pumps use a reversible cycle to achieve a higher coefficient of performance than traditional AC systems, making them more energy-efficient.
2. Versatility in Function: Heat pumps can switch between heating and cooling modes, providing optimized energy use year-round, unlike traditional AC systems which are single-purpose.
3. Advanced Heat Management: Heat pumps in EVs can integrate with the vehicle’s thermal management systems, using heat from the drivetrain and battery to enhance efficiency and reduce the energy needed for climate control.
4. Improved Range in EVs: By reducing the load on the battery for climate control, heat pumps help preserve more energy for driving range, which is crucial for the efficiency and performance of electric vehicles.

While both systems transfer heat, heat pumps offer distinct advantages in efficiency, versatility, and integration with EV systems, making them a superior choice for maintaining energy efficiency in electric vehicles.

 

[natedogg]

Air conditioners also transfer heat from inside to outside by the exact same process as a heat pump. If an air conditioner did not transfer heat from the cabin to the outside then what do you understand to be cooling the cabin?

Regarding efficiency, if both systems use the same compressor, refrigerant, insulation, and heat exchangers (a.k.a. radiators or coils) then my understanding is any difference in cooling efficiency is too small to make a difference either way. So if a heat pump is trying to cool the inside by pumping heat to the outside there is no significant efficiency gain compared to an AC system doing the same thing with the same components.

This is entirely correct.

Heat pumps and traditional air conditioners both operate by transferring heat from inside to outside, but heat pumps are generally more efficient, particularly in EVs. This efficiency comes from the heat pump's ability to operate in a reversible cycle, allowing it to switch between heating and cooling modes.

Additionally, heat pumps integrate with the vehicle's thermal management system, optimizing the use of available heat and improving overall energy efficiency. Here's a breakdown of why heat pumps are superior in EVs:

1. Higher Efficiency: Heat pumps use a reversible cycle to achieve a higher coefficient of performance than traditional AC systems, making them more energy-efficient.
2. Versatility in Function: Heat pumps can switch between heating and cooling modes, providing optimized energy use year-round, unlike traditional AC systems which are single-purpose.
3. Advanced Heat Management: Heat pumps in EVs can integrate with the vehicle’s thermal management systems, using heat from the drivetrain and battery to enhance efficiency and reduce the energy needed for climate control.
4. Improved Range in EVs: By reducing the load on the battery for climate control, heat pumps help preserve more energy for driving range, which is crucial for the efficiency and performance of electric vehicles.

While both systems transfer heat, heat pumps offer distinct advantages in efficiency, versatility, and integration with EV systems, making them a superior choice for maintaining energy efficiency in electric vehicles.

Why do your posts read like an output from ChatGPT? The other users are also correct. Air Conditions and Heat Pumps work by the exact same principles when cooling. On a hot day when you are cooling things, the heat pump is operating no differently than an air conditioner would. Just because heat pumps are “generally more efficient” doesn’t mean anything. We don’t know the specific specs of this heat pump vs the air conditioner Rivian was using before.

Sponsored