New R1S Dual Performance Max AT Range issues

[andisimose]

Dual Max performance here. Just did a 1000 mile trip in near-perfect conditions (500 each way); dry, level, steady medium temp ~80-85'. Basically controlled variables on everything with a 75mph cruising speed for 98% of the way, best possible scenario. It's the range test that me and @DuoRivians dreamed about.

2.36 miles per kwh consumption which means that if you multiply by the 141kwh capacity, that's 332 miles from 100% to 0%. So now I know, and you should too, best case scenario at highway speeds of 75mph will hit you for a solid 20%.

Go slower, it will improve, and go faster, it will get much worse.

Curious what wheel setup you have?

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[LiamJacobs]

You were going 75-90mph? I don’t even have an EV and know that’s going to be horrible for range. What was your efficiency, mi/kwh?

75-80 (speed limit for about 1/2 the trip was 70, I slowed to about 70-75 for the 65 mph areas
ABRP says 2mi/kw, I upgraded to premium after the close call, prior to that, I think it was saying something like 2.8, but I can’t say for certain.

Curious what wheel setup you have?

AT tires, which yes I know are not as efficient, but I used the AT range numbers


Just FYI for those that are acting like this is common knowledge, it’s my first full EV, my first Rivian, I’m still learning how to even navigate the menus, I just went off the limited knowledge I had. I’ll play with it more and see if the numbers improve.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

There are times where I've exceeded the rated efficiency, and times where I've been well below. But one thing has always been very consistent, the Rivian route planner, which takes into account elevation changes, battery performance, drive mode etc. Use it next time you do a trip and you won't find yourself in this situation.

Biggest factors affecting range efficiency
- speed
- conditions
- payload (not so much weight, but roof top box, bikes, trailer, anything outside of the cabin really)
- elevation changes
- Wind (part of conditions, but a huge factor)

 

[LiamJacobs]

Biggest factors affecting range efficiency
- speed
- conditions
- payload (not so much weight, but roof top box, bikes, trailer, anything outside of the cabin really)
- elevation changes
- Wind (part of conditions, but a huge factor)

Seems like speed was my biggest factor, to be fair, Rivian does own ABRP, why they haven’t integrated that into their vehicles ??‍. Found this out yesterday when they called to arrange spare tire deliver. It also seems that it doesn’t “recalculate“ effectively unless you manually end the route and restart it every so often.

 

[BCondrey]

Your pack size is 141 kwh usable. You had a 85% charge, which is about 120 kwh. You drove 241 miles to 0% (then the reserve kicked in, saving you). 241 miles divided by 120 kwh is 2 miles per kwh. Thats about right for the 75 mph speed on AT tires. For what its worth, I have found that after a few thousand miles my efficiency has improved. I routinely get 2.5 now on 21" road tires, after 10K miles.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

I upgraded to premium after the close call, prior to that, I think it was saying something like 2.8, but I can’t say for certain.

ABRP is fantastic for seeing chargers sometimes the Rivian Nav does not. That said, use the route planner within the Rivian phone app, you can set destination, stops along the way, departing state of charge, arriving state of charge, drive mode (less relevant on the dual motor) and send that planned route once you're happy with it, directly to the vehicles navigation so when you get in, you just hit GO and you're on your way. Charge stops are planned out for you, etc.

Also, if you have a tesla-CCS adapter ensure you allow the "Adapter needed" charger filter in your navigation, this will allow it to see tesla superchargers along the route.

Of note, you have to have an adapter to use a supercharger.

 

[BCondrey]

Seems like speed was my biggest factor, to be fair, Rivian does own ABRP, why they haven’t integrated that into their vehicles ??‍. Found this out yesterday when they called to arrange spare tire deliver. It also seems that it doesn’t “recalculate“ effectively unless you manually end the route and restart it every so often.

You set the expected efficiency in ABRP. I always use a bit less than my lifetime average for that.

 

[LiamJacobs]

You set the expected efficiency in ABRP. I always use a bit less than my lifetime average for that.

Makes sense, but I literally picked in up Monday, so I had no idea what was reasonable. I think I used a reference from one of the forums, it obviously was a more conservative driver then I was.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

Seems like speed was my biggest factor, to be fair, Rivian does own ABRP, why they haven’t integrated that into their vehicles ??‍. Found this out yesterday when they called to arrange spare tire deliver. It also seems that it doesn’t “recalculate“ effectively unless you manually end the route and restart it every so often.

It dynamically recalculates. most times you need internet service as it relies on Cloud data to process all the trip variables. Also you'll see when you change drive modes it will alter your arrival SOC within a few moments of changing while driving.

Do not pay attention to the battery status on the dash cluser, that's rated range. The SOC on arrival at the base of the nav screen on the central display is the one you want to go by.

Also, Rivian seemingly has only done one major cross integration with ABRP since it's acquisition

 

[LiamJacobs]

It dynamically recalculates. most times you need internet service as it relies on Cloud data to process all the trip variables. Also you'll see when you change drive modes it will alter your arrival SOC within a few moments of changing while driving.

Do not pay attention to the battery status on the dash cluser, that's rated range. The SOC on arrival at the base of the nav screen on the central display is the one you want to go by.

Also, Rivian seemingly has only done one major cross integration with ABRP since it's acquisition

There is only 1 drive mode on the Dual Performance Max “all purpose“ I specifically asked when picking it up about “conserve mode” and was told the dual motors do this automatically now, no switching.

 

[FooF]

Road trips with more frequent charges are less stressful. Try stopping for short charges and stretch your legs, grab a bite or use restroom. I always stop when I still have enough charge to make it to the next charger down the road in case the chargers are having issues. This way you do not have to charge over 80 percent very often which is slower.

 

[andisimose]

Seems like speed was my biggest factor, to be fair, Rivian does own ABRP, why they haven’t integrated that into their vehicles ??‍. Found this out yesterday when they called to arrange spare tire deliver. It also seems that it doesn’t “recalculate“ effectively unless you manually end the route and restart it every so often.

If you haven’t already pair your rivian do to live data with ABRP (there’s threads here on it) after some time it will learn your driving habits and usage. I’ve found the Abrp routes to be significantly different after learning my consumption from the truck. Though ymmv

 

[Captain JB]

Have made about 4 road trips out of LA to Bend, Oregon and Lake Tahoe, Mammoth Lakes and Moab, Utah. I take pride in actually INCREASING the estimated milage at destination and stops in between. 90% of the time I am able to do that by never going over 70mph and really trying to stay at 65mph. Also, I try and be very very smooth on the accelerator and make gradual power increases. In comparison, my lovely wife is very aggressive on the accelerator even accelerating to a stop or always going 75mph and she never gets the predicted milage. Slow down and be smooth and you will have accurate numbers. If you do a Mario Andretti imitation, you will always never get the range predicted. It is just the nature of the beast.

 

[Atlrivian]

I've had my quad for 2 years and get between 1.9-2 efficiency at ~75mph and 60-90 degree temps. This actually compares favorably to rated range. ~130 useable pack lets me go about 200 miles before I start looking for a charger (starting from 100%).

For my entire life I've always researched every significant decision / purchase I've made. I knew exactly what I was getting in terms of realistic expectations for range, etc. I understand, however, that we are reaching the point where non-enthusiasts are walking in with zero baseline knowledge and making a purchase. With current infrastructure car companies, including Rivian, need to do a better job of educating their customers.

Know you aren't alone. There was a guy a while back who complained he was only getting like 0.8 mi/kw because he was towing a huge trailer up a steep grade while going 85-90 mph ?

 

[RexRemus]

Hey OP - First time EV owner here as well. Definitely take the responses here as "constructive" and not derogatory - it WILL take time to learn the ins and outs of this, and as many have stated, speed is the single biggest factor YOU can control - weather, grades, etc. you're just at the mercy of whatever there is. So just like you'd slow down in a gas vehicle if you were trying to eek out those last few miles when the low fuel light comes on - no different here.

That being said, given a few more trips, you and the vehicle itself will get more dialed in on what "comfortable" range you can expect. And the guidance to just always plan "one stop ahead" is good guidance - EV charging is still hit or miss, so knowing you CAN charge now, but still have a reserve to get to another location safely is a good way to plan. At least until you REALLY get to know the conditions and best places to stop along any given route. Then you can be a little more "aggressive" in your planning. There are different schools of thought as well...

- Longer/fewer charging sessions (start at 100%, run it down to 10% or so, charge back up to 80 or so) which is nice if the trip and charging locations align to naturally longer breakpoints - planned stops for food or whatever. This is going to be like 180-200 miles between each stop or around 2-2.5hrs of drive time - depending on speed - and then 30-40 minutes of charge time at each stop.

Or the "hard and fast" (out of spec style) method of making shorter and more frequent stops where you might still initially leave at 100%, run it down to 10% or even 5% and then only charge for 15-20 minutes (or up to somewhere around 40-50% charge depending on how far your next charger is). This method keeps the battery in the zone where it is always in the maximum charging curve (most power for the least time). This would be more like 100-150 miles between each stop, and then 10-15 minute charges (much closer to a gas station stop with a bathroom break and some snack hunting - but just more of them).

Depending on the charging infrastructure, length of the trip, and passengers (kids may actually prefer more frequent stops for potty breaks, walks to get out energy, and snack breaks), you can decide which method will work best. Longer trips (500mi+) will almost certainly have a mix of both strategies as you're far more likely to hit charging dead zones where you NEED to really charge to 90%+ to have confidence in making the gap to the next charger, but they also typically include overnight stays at a hotel or similar - if you plan well and have an L2 charger at the hotel, you can top up and be at 100% when you leave the next morning - align that to your charging infra gaps and you're in good shape.

And I know for a new EV convert this can all sound like "so much work" and "so complicated" - and yes, sadly, right now this is more work, but really, after your first 2-3 trips, you know what you're doing and it's not really that big of a deal. It's still a thing, but your understanding of how to drive, how to nurse, or when you can push will get vastly better and you'll also get better at using the tools to plan your routes. At that point you don't really think about it anymore and you just drive.

One last thing I'd add is - ABC - Always Be Charging. If there is a charger in/around the area you're making any stop - use it. Even if it only adds 5 miles back, it's better to have it, than not. Plugin anywhere and anytime you can. This can help alleviate anxiety and, depending on how and where, can save a bit of cash if it's free L2 - and it often is.

Mostly - be kind to yourself. Understand that there IS a learning curve, and you need some time to figure it out. Rivian makes amazing vehicles, but EPA numbers are not real numbers. Learn the vehicle, learn how to maximize range from driving habits, learn the best places to stop along your routes, and this stuff will go away and you'll just enjoy the vehicle.

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