Out of Spec 10% Challenge of Gen2 R1T dual Max: Massively Negative!

[iamnid]

I hope Kyle got that Snickers he needed.

Did he even mention the improved cameras, adaptive/matrix headlights, better ride, or any of the other R2 improvements? It's an OOS video, so I had to skim it admittedly.

It was a 10% challenge which discusses range and charging -- not a review of Gen 2. He reviewed Gen 2 months ago.

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[NY_Rob]

Here's the "issue" (and it's only an "issue" if you're in a big hurry to DC fast charge as quickly as possible) with the Rivian battery cell cooling solution..
Rivian has just one cooling plate that runs between the two layers of cells in the pack modules. As you can clearly see in the first illustration- the cooling "plate" only cools the end of each cell vs. cooling the whole side of the cell as Tesla does in their battery packs. There is no top or bottom pack cooling plate either, just the one cooling plate that is shared between the top and bottom stack of cells.
Imagine cooking a hotdog, then placing an ice cube on one end. You're only cooling a tiny portion of the cell which is why the Rivian charging curve tapes off so quickly. Once the cells heat up, it takes a very long time to cool them down using just end plate cooling, and not even top + bottom end plate cooling, Rivian is only cooling one end of each cell.

From JerryRigEverything where he went to Monroe Assoc and tore down one of the Rivian pack modules.. you can see the single cooling plate that runs between the pack upper and lower cell layers. There is no other cell cooling, just that one middle pack cooling plate.

FYI, here's how Tesla cools their cells... notice the bottom left insert shows how the cooling channels are curved to partially wrap around each cell adding surface contact area allowing more complete/faster heat transfer out of the cells vs. just cooling only one end of each cell.

.
Model Y 4860 size cell cooling detail..

 

[DrBad]

Very interesting video. Everybody is commenting on the charging speeds but I would love to hear more from anyone that has switched from a Gen 1 quad R1T and now has a Gen 2 Dual large... I have a Gen 2 Dual large on order and now debating id I should be getting rid of my Gen 1... Don't really care about the charging speed as I mostly charge at home. But some of the things that concern me from his video are.

-Dual motor making loud banging noise when it switches to front wheel drive
- loud noise outside from the AC compressor
- He mentions how bad the stereo is... Some say there same and others say its good. ( I have the Meridian in my gen 1

I always take these YouTube videos with a grain if salt,... but the more I research about the Gen 2 has me questioning my Gen 2 reservation and getting rid of my Gen 1.

Cheers

I've had my Gen2 R1T Dual Max AT for a couple of months and love it. Have had EVs in the past including Tesla Model 3, which was just too small and sold it around COVID because I wasn't commuting (also had a Jeep Gladiator at the time as my adventure vehicle).

Regarding the three points above:
-Dual motor making loud banging noise when it switches to front wheel drive
- Never heard this on mine
- loud noise outside from the AC compressor
- I've heard this at times in the garage when initially getting in the vehicle or parking but never when driving so not sure what the issue is.
- He mentions how bad the stereo is... Some say there same and others say its good. ( I have the Meridian in my gen 1
- I've got the premium sound and I think it sounds great. Takes some fiddling with the levels and the location, I keep it centered on the driver's seat unless my wife is with me. Everybody's ears are different. I'm an audiophile, I've always had quality audio at home and opt for the auto sound upgrade, so for me, the sound is very good and way better than stock and even upgraded sound on most cars I've driven.

The 10% video is ok but everyone has their different uses, needs, and expectations. 95% of my charging will be done at home so getting the max range from home is a plus. Remote charging will mostly be topping off to get home from a ski trip or other CO mountain activities. Road trips where longer charges are needed will involve the wife, who needs a potty stop every hour (ha, ha, just kidding... not really ), a dog who needs to be walked, and stretching our old, creaky legs. So, even with ICE our pit stops tend to be 30-45minutes on a road trip. I'd like to have faster charging but the other pluses of the car far outweigh this issue. And I'm leasing for exactly these types of new EV world growing pains.

The things I love about my R1T:
- Drives great. It's a luxury pick-up. And coming from a Jeep gladiator, it's like driving on a cloud.
- it's comparable to my Gladiator size-wise and fun-wise. My kids love taking the Jeep out on trails and this will also fit that bill. Was considering waiting for the Silverado EV Off-Raod but that's a BIG truck, I just don't think it will be as fun for small, windy trails.
- Gear tunnel
- Gear tunnel seats
- Motorized tonneau cover
- Modular racks
- Gear guard cable system
- Camera system
- Gear guard cameras and videos
- Adjustable height
- Sound system
- The Rivian vibe - it's like going to REI!

 

[LL75]

Here's the "issue" (and it's only a "issue" if you're in a big hurry to DC fast charge as quickly as possible) with the Rivian battery cell cooling solution..
Rivian has just one cooling plate that runs between the two layers of cells in the pack modules. As you can clearly see in the first illustration- the cooling "plate" only cools the end of each cell vs. cooling the whole side of the cell as Tesla does in their battery packs. There is no top or bottom pack cooling plate, just the one cooling plate that is shared between the top and bottom stack of cells.
Imagine cooking a hotdog, then placing an ice cube on one end. You're only cooling a tiny portion of the cell which is why the Rivian charging curve tapes off so quickly. Once the cells heat up, it takes a very long time to cool them down using just end plate cooling, and not even top + bottom end plate cooling, Rivian is only cooling one end of each cell.

From JerryRigEverything where he went to Monroe Assoc and tore down one of the Rivian pack modules.. you can see the single cooling plate that runs between the pack upper and lower cell layers. There is no other cell cooling, just that one middle pack cooling plate.

FYI, here's how Tesla cools their cells... notice the bottom left insert shows how the cooling channels are curved to partially wrap around each cell adding surface contact area allowing more complete/faster heat transfer out of the cells vs. just cooling only one end of each cell.

.
Model Y 4860 size cell cooling detail..

Why didn't they have more than 1 cooling plates? They could have one on top, one on the bottom and one in the middle? is spacing an issue?

 

[NY_Rob]

Why didn't they have more than 1 cooling plates? They could have one on top, one on the bottom and one in the middle? is spacing an issue?

Yeah, good question, I don't think they were space constrained.

Cost and development time are the first two things that come to mind? I imagine going forward seeing how much different the charging landscape and charging speed competition from other EV manufacturers is from back in 2018 (I'm guessing at that date) when the Rivian pack was designed, Rivian is or will be working on a more efficient cooling design already I suppose.

 

[joesimonsen]

I love all the deep dive technical analysis and break downs of the parts. At the end of the day though my car works great, drives well, charges fast enough for me even on long 2 day road trips and suits all my needs. Thats wha tis most important to me in the end.

 

[Budman]

Kyle is 100% right. Rivian cuts costs threw in a few low hanging fruit improvements “talking points” while punting on the engineering heavy lifting and other refinements that could make the truck second to none. Hope the bail out money keeps them afloat long enough to get their engineering house shipshape. Long live OG R1T

And how would they make a profit by adding content and expenses into a product that is already gross-margin negative??? They had to cut cost to on the product to make it long term viable.

 

[SASSquatch]

Kyle is a knowledgeable guy. He is also a Rivian owner. I don’t agree with a lot of the things he says but we are all free to have our own opinions.

The video did sort of go off the rails as he took the opportunity to complain about various different things on the vehicle. I didn’t watch the whole thing…just skipped around to pertinent parts.

In the end I think we all know that Rivian is not the fastest charging EV around. For that it would need to support 800v.

Lastly, Kyle has been critical of the max pack since its release. While I don’t agree with a lot of what he said at least he is sharing his opinion openly and honestly.

Yes, Cut-the-Line Kyle is nothing but open and honest! He lost me when he received Gen 1 R1T before most on this forum without actually having an existing reservation well after post-March pricing, but getting pre-March pricing and proclaiming it was all on the up and up while refusing to answer any questions about it when Tom from State of Charge tried to corner him in a video afterward.

I don't disagree that his content can be helpful and insightful, if you have the stomach to watch an hour long video that should be 15 minutes long, but I simply don't trust anything he has, or ever will have to say about Rivian because he couldn't be honest about getting preferential treatment.

 

[mkhuffman]

It took about 35 minutes to go from 20 to 75%.

As someone who has only lived with one BEV (my Mach-e), this is totally livable. In fact, it is similar to what I see in my car which has a much smaller battery. And 75% of 141 kWh is a lot better than 75% of 91 kWh.

Faster charging is better, of course. But for every single time I have needed to DCFC over the past three years, the R1T would have provided a better result. In many cases I could have skipped a DCFC totally because the Max has so much more range than my car.

And even when I needed to stop, a 35-minute charge is no big deal. If I need more, I can go eat lunch at a restaurant and have a couple beers while waiting.

I get that it won't win a cross-country race. But I am not planning to do that. Who is?

 

[Electrified Outdoors]

Yes, Cut-the-Line Kyle is nothing but open and honest! He lost me when he received Gen 1 R1T before most on this forum without actually having an existing reservation well after post-March pricing, but getting pre-March pricing and proclaiming it was all on the up and up while refusing to answer any questions about it when Tom from State of Charge tried to corner him in a video afterward.

I don't disagree that his content can be helpful and insightful, if you have the stomach to watch an hour long video that should be 15 minutes long, but I simply don't trust anything he has, or ever will have to say about Rivian because he couldn't be honest about getting preferential treatment.

I can understand your point of view. Auto Influencers with over 100k followers and especially those with over 1m will get preferential treatment from car makers...but they shouldn't accept it if they want to be taken seriously. I can't comment on what kind of deal Kyle had with Rivian or if he did have any preferred pricing.

Kyles videos are informative and a research tool as it should be with any social media personality. Especially the large channels there are all kind of other things at play that folks don't know about. For that reason I take what all of them say with a grain of salt. Its information that should be researched and verified before drawing a firm conclusion or making a purchasing decision.

IF rivian gave me any kind of preferential treatment, pricing, etc. I would disclose it. I like being a smaller channel for this reason, but even if larger I wouldn't want to accept any preferential treatment because folks wouldn't take me seriously. Its the reason why we have to disclose when there are paid promotions in our YT videos.

In the end its entertainment and while I don't know for sure....I tend to believe that Kyle is just trying to stir up controversy to increase his engagement. He is an incredibly smart guy...and as someone else said nothing like a little enragement to increase engagement.

The major news outlets are a perfect example of this....and we wonder why there is such a major problem with anxiety in this country. You can't turn on a device or TV without your fight or flight fear response being triggered. I digress.

 

[pickupman2022]

Thank you for replying. I'm supposed to be doing the same trade in as you. I would love to know your thoughts when you get the new Gen 2. Cheers

TLDR: Stop worrying and enjoy your Gen 2 when it arrives.

My initial impressions, so far I have not heard the heat pump at all unless i'm standing right in front of the truck. (Gen 1 was way noisier). It was 34 this morning. Gen 2 has much less motor noise, virtually silent. Ride quality seems to be improved. The cameras are much better, brighter / clearer. Audio seemed a little flat until I adjusted the EQ a bit, up on the 2 highest and 2 lowest. That is similar to how I had my Gen 1 set. I'm no audiophile and generally use bluetooth audio but I don't feel like I lost anything over the Meridian. Range appears to be comparable. Charged to usual level last night and arrived to work with the same percentage as the Gen 1 would have been. Certainly the dual is not as heart stopping fast as the quad but plenty quick enough for me. Proximity locking seems to work better, I hated it so bad on Gen 1, I had it disabled and just used the fob. Works as expected on the Gen 2 so far and the addition of the press to unlock at home makes it perfectly usable for me. Discovered Gen 2 does not currently have climate scheduling but, I setup a scheduled apple shortcut to start the climate automatically at the desired time. I have not tried rapid charging yet.

 

[iamnid]

I don't understand the controversy.

I'm amazed at how many here can't seem to take ANY criticism about the R1T. Objectively, it doesn't charge fast because the battery overheats. To many, that doesn't appear to matter. Ok. Fine. What's wrong with Kyle pointing that out? It isn't like he's making it up. DC fast charging speed might be important to some when making a purchasing decision, especially considering some competing vehicles charge MUCH faster. I don't know why we can't hear this without attacking Kyle and his motives.

We are upset he "cut the line" when getting his R1T? First, we don't know how he got it and he may have been a day one reservation holder. But, even if he wasn't, it obviously behooves Rivian to get their vehicles into the hands of someone who has millions of followers. I know I watched his videos when he first got the R1T because I wanted to know more about it. He created a ton of content, going over everything about his R1T and that was obviously more valuable to Rivian than making sure that truck went to the next person in line if, in fact, Kyle "cut the line."

If you've watched his videos over the years, you'd know he loves his Rivian but he's frequently complained about the poor charging speeds. This video wasn't created to stir up controversy, he's just frustrated that they did a "Gen 2" and didn't address what is, in his mind, the biggest shortcoming of the vehicle. If you aren't DC fast charging all the time, the 10% road trip challenge isn't for you. If you ARE DC fast charging all the time, videos like this help you make an informed purchasing decision.

I chose to buy my R1S armed with this knowledge and I would never, for a minute, want him to stop making this content because he speaks poorly (in some aspects) of the vehicle I might own.

 

[moosehead]

Whatevs. One can Level 2 charge their Rivian from 0-100% in less time than it takes to watch a OOS video.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

We are upset he "cut the line" when getting his R1T? First, we don't know how he got it and he may have been a day one reservation holder. But, even if he wasn't, it obviously behooves Rivian to get their vehicles into the hands of someone who has millions of followers. I know I watched his videos when he first got the R1T because I wanted to know more about it. He created a ton of content, going over everything about his R1T and that was obviously more valuable to Rivian than making sure that truck went to the next person in line if, in fact, Kyle "cut the line."

I just wanted to address this. We DO know that Kyle cut the line. It was a whole controversy then, and he even admitted it eventually. I'm not convinced that some YouTubers should get preferential treatment and be allowed to skip those waiting. He's going to do his review regardless of whether or not he gets one first. His whole career is making YouTube videos so again, he'd get those out regardless of being able to skip. That's what press cars are for.

He also got pricing he didn't qualify for; he should have paid the new price, not the pre-order price, as he did not have a qualifying preorder. I don't like people thinking they get special treatment simply because of who they are. That whole system doesn't sit well with me.

 

[CharonPDX]

While watching the video I played a drinking game. And you can, too!

Just grab your favorite holiday spirit and take a shot each time Kyle says: “I’m going to sit down and talk with the Rivian Engineers about this…”

I'm dead now, thanks.

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