New Delivery Delay Confirmed - My R1T Delivery Pushed From October to end of February, 2022.

[jjswan33]

Not my suggestion, I said if I were him which it's good for us all that I'm not....

Which narrative are we talking about though, communication or the inability of Guides to provide guarantees? They probably will make mass contact, but I sure hope for their sake they don't throw out delivery estimates. I'd probably ask them not to tell me mine and don't call back until they need payment.

Haha.. fair enough.

I am talking about the narrative of consistently missing self imposed deadlines and poorly communicating those failures that leads to a lack of trust among preorder holders.

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[moosehead]

Neither this current IPO nor the steep promise and premise of Rivian lend themselves to this notion, but at some point underpromise and overdeliver would be welcome.

Maintain the strain OP.

 

[Dbeglor]

Haha.. fair enough.

I am talking about the narrative of consistently missing self imposed deadlines and poorly communicating those failures that leads to a lack of trust among preorder holders.

Deadline is too strong a word... The biggest error they made was in not clearly communicating what those estimates were, which were WAGs. I think some understood that, clearly others did not.

Clearly it's a philosophical debate, but personally I don't think there is any basis to hold them accountable for the early estimates. When they take payment and provide a VIN, along with a delivery timeline, then yes absolutely those are deadlines that they should be accountable for. Otherwise, nobody should be making other decisions that they now have to live with based on a WAG.

However, if they reach out by end of month, and continue to provide WAGs, I'm certain there will be plenty here happy to crucify them when they inevitably miss them.

#WAGs were made to be missed

 

[Dbeglor]

Deadline is too strong a word... The biggest error they made was in not clearly communicating what those estimates were, which were WAGs. I think some understood that, clearly others did not.

Clearly it's a philosophical debate, but personally I don't think there is any basis to hold them accountable for the early estimates. When they take payment and provide a VIN, along with a delivery timeline, then yes absolutely those are deadlines that they should be accountable for. Otherwise, nobody should be making other decisions that they now have to live with based on a WAG.

However, if they reach out by end of month, and continue to provide WAGs, I'm certain there will be plenty here happy to crucify them when they inevitably miss them.

#WAGs were made to be missed

What we're really witnessing here is actually just an echo of the delay announced a few months ago. The error was that that information, after being given as a whole during the summer, wasn't filtered down to the few individuals who had been given WAGs based on an old timeline (because it was only a few and they forgot about them).

In the meantime, they started production, delivery to employees and are ramping up. Everything under control. Then, a Guide poked his head in his manager's office and said, hey I've got a customer wondering if they are getting delivery this month? Manager - oh shit, we didn't adjust that back in August? Yeah, tell him February, but we still don't know when any specific individual will get delivery.

 

[Bumble1978]

To play devils advocate, their goal is great but if they wanted to do so they would have started with a 800v/900v architecture making the vehicle future proof which in turn making less waste as people would keep their vehicles longer. Literally my only gripe, I wanted a 10+ year vehicle and I don't think it will be based off the one key thing that drives longevity.

*Note I know we are way past this, complaining about spilled milk LOL*

I will argue, nay state that in 2031-ish that the LE R1's will be in much better shape than my gently used Nissan 2011 Leaf is, no one expected them to still be viable today?!? I find mine plenty viable, extremely limited, but viable nonetheless. ?

Who says that the R2, R3 won't have 800/900v? And many will gladly trade in for said feature. And correct me if I'm wrong, but 800/900v architecture does diddly-squat when you're L2 charging...which is most of the time for most EV owners?!?! ?

 

[Dbeglor]

To play devils advocate, their goal is great but if they wanted to do so they would have started with a 800v/900v architecture making the vehicle future proof which in turn making less waste as people would keep their vehicles longer. Literally my only gripe, I wanted a 10+ year vehicle and I don't think it will be based off the one key thing that drives longevity.

*Note I know we are way past this, complaining about spilled milk LOL*

Counterpoint - just because a vehicle isn't a 10+ year vehicle for you, doesn't mean it's not a 10+ year vehicle. It's the way of the world, the masses drive the outdated product. If they made the current models with 800/900v tech, you'd still trade it for the 1500v or solid-state product released in 2026 that we don't know even exists yet.

 

[kanundrum]

I will argue, nay state that in 2031-ish that the LE R1's will be in much better shape than my gently used Nissan 2011 Leaf is, no one expected them to still be viable today?!? I find mine plenty viable, extremely limited, but viable nonetheless. ?

Who says that the R2, R3 won't have 800/900v? And many will gladly trade in for said feature. And correct me if I'm wrong, but 800/900v architecture does diddly-squat when you're L2 charging...which is most of the time for most EV owners?!?! ?

Shape is TBD as build quality seems good but simply do not know. Your 2011 leaf is viable yes, a 2021 leaf is also viable in 2031 yes but the range and degradation will also be a thing, no matter what charging 800v/900v architecture(including motors) would put less amps on the system making all components last longer.

R2/R3 products are but a dream/dust 5+ years down the road. A BRAND new car company in theory would have future proof components but here we are with still off the shelf 450v architecture unless they have some trick BMS (which we do not know due to lack of communication).

Again doesn't change how I like the company just on paper not the best moves due to whichever reasoning.

 

[kanundrum]

Counterpoint - just because a vehicle isn't a 10+ year vehicle for you, doesn't mean it's not a 10+ year vehicle. It's the way of the world, the masses drive the outdated product. If they made the current models with 800/900v tech, you'd still trade it for the 1500v or solid-state product released in 2026 that we don't know even exists yet.

Correct how ever those components aren't available yet, the 800v/900v architecture is being used by companies like Hyundai, VAG, and Lucid, at least the hardware is there and software can come making it a more viable product in the long run.

 

[LoneStar]

Shocked at how many seem to miss the fundamental point here.... Rivian failed again at any kind of proactive COMMUNICATION. Heck, they failed to do it even with a handful of early customer recipients.

By and large, this thread is not trying to say the DELAY is unwarranted or incomprehensible. Only that Rivian continues to demonstrate utter incompetence in the COMMUNICATION department (assuming there is one).

Ironically, the very thing that RJ personally acknowledged and pledged to focus on and do better in the future. NOT!

 

[Dbeglor]

Correct how ever those components aren't available yet, the 800v/900v architecture is being used by companies like Hyundai, VAG, and Lucid, at least the hardware is there and software can come making it a more viable product in the long run.

Sure, but you're thinking about it in a vacuum. It's oversimplifying to say, why use 400v when 800/900v is right there? Just pick it up, free money!

There's no free lunch. Hyundai uses it as their competitive advantage in a more affordable vehicle, but you get far less in other areas of performance, finish quality, etc. Porsche/Lucid use it, while also delivering those other things, but you need a mortgage to pay for it.

So yeah, I'm sure Rivian thought about it, and it was on a wish list of all the things they would like to have in their product in an ideal world. Then they had to prioritize to deliver at the price point that fit with their strategy. They chose to prioritize some of the other things and that's just fine.

I would imagine that going forward, the flagship models (T/S) will get upgraded to higher voltage, or solid state, or whatever else they develop in house, while the lower end models keep the 400v.

 

[Pherdnut]

I'm more disappointed at all the Tesla trolls I will no longer be able to troll about legit delays vs what they're claiming than the added wait.

 

[kanundrum]

Sure, but you're thinking about it in a vacuum. It's oversimplifying to say, why use 400v when 800/900v is right there? Just pick it up, free money!

There's no free lunch. Hyundai uses it as their competitive advantage in a more affordable vehicle, but you get far less in other areas of performance, finish quality, etc. Porsche/Lucid use it, while also delivering those other things, but you need a mortgage to pay for it.

So yeah, I'm sure Rivian thought about it, and it was on a wish list of all the things they would like to have in their product in an ideal world. Then they had to prioritize to deliver at the price point that fit with their strategy. They chose to prioritize some of the other things and that's just fine.

I would imagine that going forward, the flagship models (T/S) will get upgraded to higher voltage, or solid state, or whatever else they develop in house, while the lower end models keep the 400v.

Of course, fully agree to exactly what you are saying, I was just arguing the whole point was for a more future proof product at the time of delivery would mitigate less "waste" so one has no need to trade in a vehicle as its made with future components in mind. The strategy they used was best determined by them for which ever reason they deemed it not needed. In any case Im still a fan but technically all of it is conjecture until they update specs on their website although their manuals states at least the battery is 450v but they have yet to put language online stating so.

 

[Dbeglor]

Shocked at how many seem to miss the fundamental point here.... Rivian failed again at any kind of proactive COMMUNICATION. Heck, they failed to do it even with a handful of early customer recipients.

By and large, this thread is not trying to say the DELAY is unwarranted or incomprehensible. Only that Rivian continues to demonstrate utter incompetence in the COMMUNICATION department (assuming there is one).

Ironically, the very thing that RJ personally acknowledged and pledged to focus on and do better in the future. NOT!

Ok, but why should I care? I mean, I like Godfodder, he seems like a good dude, but I'm not losing sleep over the fact that he held out hope for getting his truck this month and found out he wasn't. I want one thing and one thing only from a car company - produce a good vehicle and be there afterword if I have issues. Anything more is above and beyond and applaudable, but not expected. I have zero expectations of them before I receive the vehicle. Why do people feel entitled to hand holding and transparency into the inner workings of a private startup? It's none of your business.

Also, RJ never gave a timeline as to when they would improve, so that is one deadline/WAG/estimate they have not missed.

 

[Dbeglor]

Of course, fully agree to exactly what you are saying, I was just arguing the whole point was for a more future proof product at the time of delivery would mitigate less "waste" so one has no need to trade in a vehicle as its made with future components in mind. The strategy they used was best determined by them for which ever reason they deemed it not needed. In any case Im still a fan but technically all of it is conjecture until they update specs on their website although their manuals states at least the battery is 450v but they have yet to put language online stating so.

Understood, but this at least lowers the bar price wise for the second/third owner of the vehicle. I don't see there being any more/less waste either way. It will last just as long with lower voltage as with more.

They have said what the max charge rate is (something like 220kw), so that tells you what you need to know right?

 

[yizzung]

Shocked at how many seem to miss the fundamental point here.... Rivian failed again at any kind of proactive COMMUNICATION. Heck, they failed to do it even with a handful of early customer recipients.

By and large, this thread is not trying to say the DELAY is unwarranted or incomprehensible. Only that Rivian continues to demonstrate utter incompetence in the COMMUNICATION department (assuming there is one).

Ironically, the very thing that RJ personally acknowledged and pledged to focus on and do better in the future. NOT!

What exactly are they supposed to mass communicate?

I am a mid-2020 non LE R1T order holder. I don’t have a date and haven’t been contacted by a guide. Are they supposed to email me and say, hey we’re delaying your delivery from [we never said] to [we don’t know]?

Almost every person here (with the exception of a tiny select few who have had guide contact) are in the same boat. There’s nothing to say to us because they never committed anything to any of us.

It’s amazing how many people really don’t understand how companies work. If half of the original order holders cancelled in mass today, Rivian would brush it right off because each of you would be quickly replaced by NEW demand pouring in. They are fine with this. The rate of new monthly signups is way up versus 2018 LA Auto Show.

Guess what happens post IPO when they can start advertising? Way more demand. Rivian doesn’t care if it sells a truck to a person who’s been waiting for three years or three days. It’s the same thing on the income statement. Pouting in a forum is oh so meaningless.

The simple fact is, they don’t have the trucks to sell today. So you can complain all you want. You can cancel. And yet demand will still far outstrip supply. That’s a great place to be. Ask Sony or Microsoft how the PS5/Xbox pandemic launches went for a clue of how Rivian views the world today…

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