Frivolous, Anecdotal Observation

[MikeWilliams_R1T]

I typically hold onto cars longer as well. But I know many that should probably be leasing since they are always trading cars.

Sponsored

 

[bfilippo]

This always seemed interesting to me. At two years, mine still feels like a brand new car. Absolutely zero interest in trading. I've always kept everything I owned for much longer than that. Why start all over again with a new payment, etc.?

That said, they also no longer make Forest Edge interior. You can have my Forest Green / Forest Edge R1T on trade when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands. ??

understood! I caved with my new (to me) one to get limestone with black ash, but really wanted the limestone with forest edge. Great interior.

 

[Rivian Roamer]

"it may be 0 vehicles"

0 vehicles available, Estimated delivery in 1 to

Hah, yeah in theory they might have one on the line. Just want to make sure people know that 1,900 listings doesn't mean 1,900 vehicles.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

This always seemed interesting to me. At two years, mine still feels like a brand new car. Absolutely zero interest in trading. I've always kept everything I owned for much longer than that. Why start all over again with a new payment, etc.?

That said, they also no longer make Forest Edge interior. You can have my Forest Green / Forest Edge R1T on trade when you pry it out of my cold, dead hands. ??

I traded mine in at two years old. I will say that, at least for me, payments weren't a factor, and I had 40K miles on mine. I buy new cars because I don't want to expend time and mental energy dealing with a vehicle without a warranty. When my Rivian is broken, it's Rivian's problem to fix. I pay nothing, and there's no negotiating or price shopping for repairs necessary.

My R1 was in excellent condition, and I also get my vehicles detailed by a professional regularly. I understand wanting to keep a limited edition they no longer make, but for me, the interior of the Gen 1 was 85% what I wanted. My Slate Sky is 100% of the way there so that little extra helped me decide.

I can't see wanting anything different besides exterior color but I'd wrap it for that. We will see in a couple years whether or not I want something different.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I typically hold onto cars longer as well. But I know many that should probably be leasing since they are always trading cars.

The problem with leasing is the car is never really yours. That limits what you can do with it and the miles you can put on. I've had my current R1 for 4 months and already have 5K on it. It sounds like I'm on pace for a 15K per year lease, except it's entering road trip season, and I will put 3-6K in highway road trip miles alone this year.

 

[bfilippo]

The problem with leasing is the car is never really yours. That limits what you can do with it and the miles you can put on. I've had my current R1 for 4 months and already have 5K on it. It sounds like I'm on pace for a 15K per year lease, except it's entering road trip season, and I will put 3-6K in highway road trip miles alone this year.

Exactly. My issue is that of mileage, easily going above 15k/year on average, and the fact that due to some inevitably arcane law, leasing is not available to Rivian yet here in Maine. Though it is for Tesla, which I find strange.

 

[MikeWilliams_R1T]

The problem with leasing is the car is never really yours. That limits what you can do with it and the miles you can put on. I've had my current R1 for 4 months and already have 5K on it. It sounds like I'm on pace for a 15K per year lease, except it's entering road trip season, and I will put 3-6K in highway road trip miles alone this year.

I'm with you on that. I also drive way too much for a lease. My truck just hit 27k miles on it and I have had it 11 months. I also like making my car "my own" with some minor aftermarket items and typically keep them at least through their warranty period plus some if it's still in good shape.

But I can see the value for certain types of customers... it took me a while to come around to it.
If you meet these factors, it might be worth it:
1) You don't drive that far, maybe 10-12k miles a year at most.
2) The car is staying mostly default (no add ons aftermarket)
3) You always want a new(ish) car in your driveway.

In that case, the total cost of ownership can be less to lease vs trade every few years. Especially factoring in sales tax and quickly depreciating cars... although with the steel and aluminum tariffs, the used market might hold value pretty well for a little while.

I have been considering making my wife's next car a lease. She barely puts 10k miles a year on her car and wants a new one almost every other year.

 

[hammick]

Some might think it silly but we spent tens of thousands more on our R1S than what a model X would have cost (and we could have gotten lifetime SC on the MX). We split time between Kansas City and Red Lodge, Montana and the free supercharging would have saved us thousands over the years.

The wife and I both got a sick feeling in our stomachs thinking about owning a Tesla. We both truly believe the current administration along with musk are destroying not only our democracy but the world. We only consume factual and vetted news and are moderate independents. For us, this isn't about politics but about basic human decency. So many lives are being needlessly destroyed so billionaires have a shot at becoming trillionaires.

We knew the risks of getting a new Rivian. Placed our order on 1-18-25 after trump and musk tweeted about clawing back the loan. It's the most expensive vehicle we've ever purchased by far and we have no regrets.

 

[bfilippo]

Some might think it silly but we spent tens of thousands more on our R1S than what a model X would have cost (and we could have gotten lifetime SC on the MX). We split time between Kansas City and Red Lodge, Montana and the free supercharging would have saved us thousands over the years.

The wife and I both got a sick feeling in our stomachs thinking about owning a Tesla. We both truly believe the current administration along with musk are destroying not only our democracy but the world. We only consume factual and vetted news and are moderate independents. For us, this isn't about politics but about basic human decency. So many lives are being needlessly destroyed so billionaires have a shot at becoming trillionaires.

We knew the risks of getting a new Rivian. Placed our order on 1-18-25 after trump and musk tweeted about clawing back the loan. It's the most expensive vehicle we've ever purchased by far and we have no regrets.

There is a lot of chatter here and elsewhere about the fact that it does not matter who the head of a company is, and you would be playing a sort of ethical whack-a-mole to manage this for all your consumer purchases.

That may be logistically and operationally true, but the reality is that boycotts have a long and storied history, and it’s been a minute since the US was so visibly and obviously entrenched in the type of situation it finds itself today.

I know politics are not allowed, so I will relent, but I feel like I’m hearing a lot of equivocation these days, and as a guy with a PhD in American Studies, which is clearly both useless and illegal now, it makes me nervous.

 

[s4wrxttcs]

This is very true. Teslas are so plentiful the difference for them is a drop in the bucket, but for Rivian it's a huge deal

As a side note - I may be a minority here (the Internet sure makes me feel like I am) - but the idea that people feel like they need to own (or not own) certain car brands because of the current political climate seems very silly. I have seen a few people dump their Tesla after less than a year of ownership because of this and get themselves into a bad financial situation as a result. Likewise I've seen someone BUY a Tesla because of the current political climate - likewise putting themselves in a stretched financial situation

I think its beyond that of a political climate. Elon currently has a lot of support among republicans despite being previously called a grifter by the very same republicans. But, I don't expect that to continue. At some point we all have that moment of clarity where we realize Elon is full of it.

Lies, exaggerations. lack of empathy, etc. He's in it for his own power trip. He's not a republican but a libertarian. I also don't think it's just Musk but the Billionaire tech bros.

The very people intent on replacing people with AI. Or more correctly making a few people so productive with AI that they can fire the rest. One would think we could just regulate them or tax them but that's what they're gutting. Less Taxes, Less IRS agents, Less regulation, etc.

They stole from the people for the AI and they're absolutely not going to pay the people back.

Another thing to realize is a lot of Tesla owners are incredibly passionate about the product and the mission of Tesla. They fully embraced him to the point of helping out with end of the quarter deliveries. These very same people are the ones who are getting rid of their Tesla. It's not just some political theatre but they're been stabbed in the back.

To them the entire Tesla brand is tainted.

Those that can afford to get rid of their Tesla either are or they're thinking about it.

Those less motivated by their passion have fear that they're vehicles will be vandalized so even they're at least considering moving on.

I absolutely detest the people who are vandalizing Tesla's. Sure I understand the hate but most Tesla owners likely don't support what Elon is doing. Especially in places like Seattle where the majority of people voted for Harris. Why would we want an EV hating president? The people vandalizing Tesla's are just total morons.

The last time I saw people so upset with the actions of the company or CEO was Diesel Gate. In some ways the betrayal is similar.

Rivian is likely the best alternative because so much was borrowed from Tesla's playbook.

I went from a Tesla to a Rivian in 2022 and some things are better and some things are worse. All in all its similar enough. It was the most natural fit for me.

I still have passion for Tesla as most of my EV experience was with a Tesla, but Elon has to go. The board absolutely must boot Elon if I'm ever to invest any kind of money into a Tesla investment (stock or vehicle).

When individuals have too much power they go bad.

 

[moosehead]

Neener, neener.

Rivian doesn’t have POTUS setting up a car sales lot on the White House lawn, though. Beat that.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Some might think it silly but we spent tens of thousands more on our R1S than what a model X would have cost (and we could have gotten lifetime SC on the MX). We split time between Kansas City and Red Lodge, Montana and the free supercharging would have saved us thousands over the years.

The wife and I both got a sick feeling in our stomachs thinking about owning a Tesla. We both truly believe the current administration along with musk are destroying not only our democracy but the world. We only consume factual and vetted news and are moderate independents. For us, this isn't about politics but about basic human decency. So many lives are being needlessly destroyed so billionaires have a shot at becoming trillionaires.

We knew the risks of getting a new Rivian. Placed our order on 1-18-25 after trump and musk tweeted about clawing back the loan. It's the most expensive vehicle we've ever purchased by far and we have no regrets.

I see this post as implying that the R1S is less of a value than the MX and I cannot help but disagree. You didn't spend thousands to avoid dealing with Elon, you spent those thousands for a superior vehicle. Teslas were good when they were the only game in town. They rested on those laurels and now everyone else is past them in every regard besides driver assistance features.

 

[MikeWilliams_R1T]

Agreed - politics aside, the R1S is a way more functional truck than the model X. Except maybe for FSD… for now.

 

[mpshizzle]

I think its beyond that of a political climate. Elon currently has a lot of support among republicans despite being previously called a grifter by the very same republicans. But, I don't expect that to continue. At some point we all have that moment of clarity where we realize Elon is full of it.

Lies, exaggerations. lack of empathy, etc. He's in it for his own power trip. He's not a republican but a libertarian. I also don't think it's just Musk but the Billionaire tech bros.

The very people intent on replacing people with AI. Or more correctly making a few people so productive with AI that they can fire the rest. One would think we could just regulate them or tax them but that's what they're gutting. Less Taxes, Less IRS agents, Less regulation, etc.

They stole from the people for the AI and they're absolutely not going to pay the people back.

Another thing to realize is a lot of Tesla owners are incredibly passionate about the product and the mission of Tesla. They fully embraced him to the point of helping out with end of the quarter deliveries. These very same people are the ones who are getting rid of their Tesla. It's not just some political theatre but they're been stabbed in the back.

To them the entire Tesla brand is tainted.

Those that can afford to get rid of their Tesla either are or they're thinking about it.

Those less motivated by their passion have fear that they're vehicles will be vandalized so even they're at least considering moving on.

I absolutely detest the people who are vandalizing Tesla's. Sure I understand the hate but most Tesla owners likely don't support what Elon is doing. Especially in places like Seattle where the majority of people voted for Harris. Why would we want an EV hating president? The people vandalizing Tesla's are just total morons.

The last time I saw people so upset with the actions of the company or CEO was Diesel Gate. In some ways the betrayal is similar.

Rivian is likely the best alternative because so much was borrowed from Tesla's playbook.

I went from a Tesla to a Rivian in 2022 and some things are better and some things are worse. All in all its similar enough. It was the most natural fit for me.

I still have passion for Tesla as most of my EV experience was with a Tesla, but Elon has to go. The board absolutely must boot Elon if I'm ever to invest any kind of money into a Tesla investment (stock or vehicle).

When individuals have too much power they go bad.

I'm not going to get into much detail here, as this is not a forum for political discussion, but I will say this: I don't disagree with what you're saying.

I think at the root my issue comes from the VERY loud minority of people that seem to think that owning a Tesla means you 100% stand behind the CEO. But like you said:

most Tesla owners likely don't support what Elon is doing

As a tech and car enthusiast it really makes me sad when a very vocal minority with misplaced rage ruins a legitimately great product. Even though I don't own a tesla, I think the brand has done wonders for the car market, and helped build what Rivian is today by paving the way. And while the product has a lot of shortcomings, it is still quite good today.

This likely comes from my ideology and experience as an openly gay man in a very conservative state. Many people I've encountered have little to no exposure to the gay community, save for a few, very vocal, very radical people. Unfortunately the most radical and angry seem to also be the most vocal. So quite often I've had the experience where I've had to educate people in my life that most of us are just normal people. Being gay isn't some outlandish crazy thing. I've had to choose to stand in defiance to the vocal minority rather then letting them "ruin" things for me.

All that to say... I don't disagree with your take on this. I just am stubborn and have no problem standing up against flawed public perception .

Hopefully this wasn't too spicy for this forum.. Really not supposed to go to deep into politics here haha

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I'm not going to get into much detail here, as this is not a forum for political discussion, but I will say this: I don't disagree with what you're saying.

I think at the root my issue comes from the VERY loud minority of people that seem to think that owning a Tesla means you 100% stand behind the CEO. But like you said:


As a tech and car enthusiast it really makes me sad when a very vocal minority with misplaced rage ruins a legitimately great product. Even though I don't own a tesla, I think the brand has done wonders for the car market, and helped build what Rivian is today by paving the way. And while the product has a lot of shortcomings, it is still quite good today.

This likely comes from my ideology and experience as an openly gay man in a very conservative state. Many people I've encountered have little to no exposure to the gay community, save for a few, very vocal, very radical people. Unfortunately the most radical and angry seem to also be the most vocal. So quite often I've had the experience where I've had to educate people in my life that most of us are just normal people. Being gay isn't some outlandish crazy thing. I've had to choose to stand in defiance to the vocal minority rather then letting them "ruin" things for me.

All that to say... I don't disagree with your take on this. I just am stubborn and have no problem standing up against flawed public perception .

Hopefully this wasn't too spicy for this forum.. Really not supposed to go to deep into politics here haha

I agree with everything you've written. However, I think Teslas aren't great and haven't been there for a while. They are devoid of style and basic features cars have had for years. So it's hard to see it as a flawed perception as I dislike Tesla for the vehicles and have disliked them for years before Elon went off the rails.

Sponsored