RJ Demonstrates Autonomous Hands-Free Driving Aids

[s4wrxttcs]

Tesla switched from mobileye simply because they were pushing the limits of safety and mobileye did not like it. I don't think they ever ran both

They never ran both because MobileEye refused.

I'm sure pushing the limits of safety played a role, but that wasn't the only reason mobileeye fired Tesla as a customer.

I don't think any decision is made in an isolated way. The combination of knowing Tesla was designing an in-house system PLUS the fact that Tesla was pushing the boundries likely combined to together to make a bad relationship for MobileEye.

https://www.consumerreports.org/con...broke-up-with-carmaker-over-autopilot-safety/

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[s4wrxttcs]

WOW, you've never heard of redundancy in systems? Aircraft use two or more independent sensors to verify the data quality to make decisions. Steering by wire is similar to what I understand. There's precedence for this in other areas; I don't see why it would be so outlandish for Rivian's software to ensure it agrees with Mobileye before making a decision.

If I was MobileEye I'd be upset if it worked this way as it would be using Mobile Eyes proprietary data.

Where I would be okay if the in-house solution was dormant while the MobileEye was operating., and it was a clean switch.

Although I suppose Rivian could have paid them a bunch of money to leverage the output.

 

[pamalabama]

WOW, you've never heard of redundancy in systems? Aircraft use two or more independent sensors to verify the data quality to make decisions. Steering by wire is similar to what I understand. There's precedence for this in other areas; I don't see why it would be so outlandish for Rivian's software to ensure it agrees with Mobileye before making a decision.

but then if rivian and mobileye don't agree, who is correct? See why that doesn't work?

And if mobileye is supposedly a locked down system, how do you merge two systems together?

if you cover up mobileye cameras, why do lane markings disappear?

if you cover up rivian cameras the car visualization might look wonky, but car visualization might have no affect on how the system drives.

This logic doesn't work because you don't really want two different driving assist softwares. You want redundant sensors, but you do not redundant software and it makes no sense why you would. Ideally you would build one software that is the most capable.

 

[captainjp]

https://www.tesladeaths.com/index-amp.html

 

[Donald Stanfield]

but then if rivian and mobileye don't agree, who is correct? See why that doesn't work?

And if mobileye is supposedly a locked down system, how do you merge two systems together?

if you cover up mobileye cameras, why do lane markings disappear?

if you cover up rivian cameras the car visualization might look wonky, but car visualization might have no affect on how the system drives.

This logic doesn't work because you don't really want two different driving assist softwares. You want redundant sensors, but you do not redundant software and it makes no sense why you would. Ideally you would build one software that is the most capable.

I didn't write the code, and I don't know for sure but typically in systems like this they check in with the other sensor/system when trying to do things like change lanes. If the systems disagree that the lane change is safe they wait until they agree or don't do the lane change. We are talking times if milliseconds.

You don't write ADAS software either, so this is just conjecture on your part as well as mine. My entire point is you have no idea how these systems function so shouldn't be speaking in definitive terms.

 

[pamalabama]

I didn't write the code, and I don't know for sure but typically in systems like this they check in with the other sensor/system when trying to do things like change lanes. If the systems disagree that the lane change is safe they wait until they agree or don't do the lane change. We are talking times if milliseconds.

You don't write ADAS software either, so this is just conjecture on your part as well as mine. My entire point is you have no idea how these systems function so shouldn't be speaking in definitive terms.

Firstly, rivian claims to be using an End to End approach for their driving stack. If you are using end to end, your level of control would be shockingly low.

Secondly, what you are describing makes no sense because the safety of a lane change is not hard to determine. It's based on perception which ideally you'd have the best perception with both systems.

You're using mental gymnastics to come up with a reason why rivian isn't lying, but they are.

Besides, even if rivian was doing something stupid like sensing lane lines using mobileye cameras and software but controlling everything else using rivian software, that would be completely stupid because it would be the opposite of redundancy. It would increase chances of failure

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Firstly, rivian claims to be using an End to End approach for their driving stack. If you are using end to end, your level of control would be shockingly low.

Secondly, what you are describing makes no sense because the safety of a lane change is not hard to determine. It's based on perception which ideally you'd have the best perception with both systems.

You're using mental gymnastics to come up with a reason why rivian isn't lying, but they are.

Besides, even if rivian was doing something stupid like sensing lane lines using mobileye cameras and software but controlling everything else using rivian software, that would be completely stupid because it would be the opposite of redundancy. It would increase chances of failure

Then prove it instead of your conjecture. There’s a real problem with you, and a couple other members, making definitive statements that are negative to Rivian without any proof

 

[pamalabama]

Then prove it instead of your conjecture. There’s a real problem with you, and a couple other members, making definitive statements that are negative to Rivian without any proof

there is no need to prove anything. These things are beyond obvious but you don't want to accept them.

You ask for proof for things that do not need proving (you can use them and see for yourself) and then you make up some ludicrous reason why rivian would use both mobileye and their own system at the same time, which doesn't even remotely make sense.

And then you claim that we have no idea what rivian is doing. While we may not know the specifics of rivian's implementation it's pretty clear what they are NOT doing and this is one of those things.

you also seem unwilling to accept that rivian could publish such blatant lies in a video. They can.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

there is no need to prove anything. These things are beyond obvious but you don't want to accept them.

You ask for proof for things that do not need proving (you can use them and see for yourself) and then you make up some ludicrous reason why rivian would use both mobileye and their own system at the same time, which doesn't even remotely make sense.

And then you claim that we have no idea what rivian is doing. While we may not know the specifics of rivian's implementation it's pretty clear what they are NOT doing and this is one of those things.

you also seem unwilling to accept that rivian could publish such blatant lies in a video. They can.

Wrong. You do need proof Rivian is lying to say they are lying. I have just as much evidence for my theory as you do for yours, I'm sorry you're having difficulty understanding it but it's clear you have an agenda with your accusatory commentary.

Put up or shut up time, prove they are lying or admit you don't know.

 

[pamalabama]

I have just as much evidence for my theory as you do for yours, I'm sorry you're having difficulty understanding it but it's clear you have an agenda with your accusatory commentary.

Rivian has an end to end pipeline for their self driving system. How do you integrate the output of a mobileye system (to compare against your own) in an end to end self driving system where mobileye's output is directly to the car's can bus? None of this makes sense.

End to end driving systems on their own have very limited control. Mobileye is completely against end to end self driving because they believe it is not possible.

Secondly, why would you compare two systems which are connected to an identical perception stack? Because that's about the dumbest logic I have ever heard. And then to fail to drive because one of them does not work? That's even worse.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Rivian has an end to end pipeline for their self driving system. How do you integrate the output of a mobileye system (to compare against your own) in an end to end self driving system where mobileye's output is directly to the car's can bus? None of this makes sense.

End to end driving systems on their own have very limited control. Mobileye is completely against end to end self driving because they believe it is not possible.

Secondly, why would you compare two systems which are connected to an identical perception stack? Because that's about the dumbest logic I have ever heard. And then to fail to drive because one of them does not work? That's even worse.

prooooooooooof. Show me proof. This aint it.

 

[Riviot]

I try so damn hard not to ignore folks, but then they say things like this...

there is no need to prove anything. These things are beyond obvious but you don't want to accept them.

As someone who's had a series of hypotheses about Rivians, then spent the time to research and test them before definitively talking out my pooper, I just can't let this continue.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I try so damn hard not to ignore folks, but then they say things like this...



As someone who's had a series of hypotheses about Rivians, then spent the time to research and test them before definitively talking out my pooper, I just can't let this continue.

He's close to getting on my ignore list too. When he directly accuses Rivian of lying without any proof it is incredibly aggravating. The only reason I don't is if I don't he will be free to post his complete nonsense unchallenged.

 

[pamalabama]

He's close to getting on my ignore list too. When he directly accuses Rivian of lying without any proof it is incredibly aggravating. The only reason I don't is if I don't he will be free to post his complete nonsense unchallenged.

Explain to me how it is possible to use mobileye's decision making and compare it against rivian's.

You're telling me that two systems with identical perception sensors and only compute differences need to be compared? For what reason?

you're just not speaking logically

I'm accusing rivian of lying because it is clear as day and you are too blind to see it.

Simply cover up all cameras (rivian) except for the forward facing mobileye camera. If drivings still works you have your answer

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Explain to me how it is possible to use mobileye's decision making and compare it against rivian's.

You're telling me that two systems with identical perception sensors and only compute differences need to be compared? For what reason?

you're just not speaking logically

I'm accusing rivian of lying because it is clear as day and you are too blind to see it.

Simply cover up all cameras (rivian) except for the forward facing mobileye camera. If drivings still works you have your answer

I don't have to explain it to you because describing it's not my job. I'm not declaring Rivian liars or even saying they aren't lying. What I am saying is you know as much as I do on this, fuckall. The difference between you and I is I will not besmirch RJ's character without PROOF. I think that's rude, and your agenda to be disruptive on here is clear to anyone willing to pay attention.

You need to start doing better and support your claims if you'll accuse people of lying. Again, covering up the camera doesn't prove ANYTHING as there are at least ten reasons I could think of for covering up the camera causing an error. You don't want to see it, because you're just here to shit talk Rivian and cause problems.

I'm getting tired of your attitude, and tired of your lies. Start proving your claims.

PS, the reason I feel confident calling you a liar is you're making declarative statements without anything substantial to back it up. That's the definition of a lie. Even if what you say is true, you are still lying because you do not KNOW it to be true.

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