2026 Quad Max EPA Certification w/ specs (range, capacity, etc.)

[DuoRivians]

Only is forum dwelling nerds even know what electrical architecture even means. The general public doesn't even know what that means.

Believe what you want. But I wouldn’t be a Rivian shareholder until they figure out 800v. I used to be a big shareholder, but sold it all—mostly because of Trump’s policies.

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[narmstrong79]

Believe what you want. But I wouldn’t be a Rivian shareholder until they figure out 800v. I used to be a big shareholder, but sold it all—mostly because of Trump’s policies.

Sounds like you should buy the dip. *Not financial advice*

Political parties will always change back and forth. "Liberals" and those who believe in science will lean more clean energy, while "conservatives" will lean towards big oil ... You gotta ride the wave and believe in a corporation to make the correct strategic moves to navigate the changes.

 

[DuoRivians]

Sounds like you should buy the dip. *Not financial advice*

Political parties will always change back and forth. "Liberals" and those who believe in science will lean more clean energy, while "conservatives" will lean towards big oil ... You gotta ride the wave and believe in a corporation to make the correct strategic moves to navigate the changes.

You have no idea how localized the EV market is becoming for the U.S.

The U.S. lost its once in a generation ability to be competitive in EVs. Now, Rivian and every other U.S. based car maker in EVs will always be behind China and Europe.

The only people buying U.S. company EVs will be US customers, and that’s a small market, especially if divided among 10+ OEMs

 

[Donald Stanfield]

You have no idea how localized the EV market is becoming for the U.S.

The U.S. lost its once in a generation ability to be competitive in EVs. Now, Rivian and every other U.S. based car maker in EVs will always be behind China and Europe.

The only people buying U.S. company EVs will be US customers, and that’s a small market, especially if divided among 10+ OEMs

This is defeatist garbage, and if it were true, China would have never become competitive with the US in anything in the first place as they started out behind.

 

[narmstrong79]

You have no idea how localized the EV market is becoming for the U.S.

The U.S. lost its once in a generation ability to be competitive in EVs. Now, Rivian and every other U.S. based car maker in EVs will always be behind China and Europe.

The only people buying U.S. company EVs will be US customers, and that’s a small market, especially if divided among 10+ OEMs

I live in the US , in a not super EV friendly state (at least my grid is Nuclear and I have solar), and I work in an adjacent market .. So I'm very much aware of where we are.

 

[narmstrong79]

This is defeatist garbage, and if it were true, China would have never become competitive with the US in anything in the first place as they started out behind.

The 100% tariff on China EVs was a good roadblock but not sustainable.

 

[DuoRivians]

This is defeatist garbage, and if it were true, China would have never become competitive with the US in anything in the first place as they started out behind.

Place your bets. While I’m not generalizing this, in EVs, China most certainly won. And they’ll rapidly offer their tech to Europe, which is already relaxing their tariffs against China in response to (and hedge against) Trump’s unpredictable trade policies.

Chinese consumers are no longer buying Teslas, in part because of Elon, but also because Tesla’s tech is simply not competitive enough versus BYD, Xiaomi, and others

 

[Kaiju]

There was already a lengthy discussion on 800V charging just a couple weeks ago, but sub is actually right about 800V vs 400V not making a difference at the cell level. It's all about total power in and how much is being forced into each cell.

If you put 400kW vs 200kW into a battery it has to sink more or less twice as much heat. Yes, you actually are putting 2x more current into every individual cell because the cell voltage is set by the chemistry. Most vehicle lithium ion cells top out around 5V, which means if you're trying to charge them twice as fast, you're dumping double current into them regardless of the charger voltage. Heat tends to come not just from conductor resistance but also resistance inside the cell as it's charging and the actual chemistry at work, which gets worse the more you try to force it. So to get actual full use out of a 350kW charger, you've got to deal with battery pack thermal limits or it accomplishes very little.

800V may become the standard if only because consumers see a bigger number and presume it's better, but it's not the slam dunk people seem to think it is. At least not yet. It's biggest advantage is presently getting over the peak to get 350kW charging because most chargers and connectors are limited to 500A. However it has some actual drawbacks, one of which is that it often gets kicked in the teeth at 400V chargers because the vehicle itself has to step up the voltage internally and often it can't match the charger. For example that Kia and Hyundai 800V system is throttled at somewhere around 120kW at 400V chargers, even if said charger can do 200kW. And yeah, systems that can charge at 350kW are faster in the absolute sense, but they're not twice as fast because they tend to still crash into the thermal limits and then have to throttle down. So it tends to be things like saving 5 minutes on a 20-80% time.

The second thing is how the battery pack gets 800V. Hummers for example do it by electronically switching two 400V packs between series and parallel to accommodate 400V or 800V, however putting two things of equal resistance into series to up the voltage generates more resistance than having them in parallel by a factor of about 4. Since that's terrible, it's clearly not just about resistance. Also performance hasn't crept into the discussion yet and there's an actual difference in what you get out of the battery pack depending on how the cells are wired. Would Rivian buyers care more about charge times over launch times?

The last thing is probably going to be the most painful, and that's that the R1 is always going to be secondary to Rivian's success and it's probably not getting changed so long as it requires a lot of changes in production. You're probably looking at that happening for the Gen 3 some years down the line.

 

[DuoRivians]

There was already a lengthy discussion on 800V charging just a couple weeks ago, but sub is actually right about 800V vs 400V not making a difference at the cell level. It's all about total power in and how much is being forced into each cell.

If you put 400kW vs 200kW into a battery it has to sink more or less twice as much heat. Yes, you actually are putting 2x more current into every individual cell because the cell voltage is set by the chemistry. Most vehicle lithium ion cells top out around 5V, which means if you're trying to charge them twice as fast, you're dumping double current into them regardless of the charger voltage. Heat tends to come not just from conductor resistance but also resistance inside the cell as it's charging and the actual chemistry at work, which gets worse the more you try to force it. So to get actual full use out of a 350kW charger, you've got to deal with battery pack thermal limits or it accomplishes very little.

800V may become the standard if only because consumers see a bigger number and presume it's better, but it's not the slam dunk people seem to think it is. At least not yet. It's biggest advantage is presently getting over the peak to get 350kW charging because most chargers and connectors are limited to 500A. However it has some actual drawbacks, one of which is that it often gets kicked in the teeth at 400V chargers because the vehicle itself has to step up the voltage internally and often it can't match the charger. For example that Kia and Hyundai 800V system is throttled at somewhere around 120kW at 400V chargers, even if said charger can do 200kW. And yeah, systems that can charge at 350kW are faster in the absolute sense, but they're not twice as fast because they tend to still crash into the thermal limits and then have to throttle down. So it tends to be things like saving 5 minutes on a 20-80% time.

The second thing is how the battery pack gets 800V. Hummers for example do it by electronically switching two 400V packs between series and parallel to accommodate 400V or 800V, however putting two things of equal resistance into series to up the voltage generates more resistance than having them in parallel by a factor of about 4. Since that's terrible, it's clearly not just about resistance.

The last thing is probably going to be the most painful, and that's that the R1 is always going to be secondary to Rivian's success and it's probably not getting changed so long as it requires a lot of changes in production. You're probably looking at that happening for the Gen 3 some years down the line.

BMW iX3, launching this year 2025, will have 800v, 400kw charging with 400 mile EPA range. Also with zonal and software defined architecture.

https://www.autoblog.com/news/bmw-ix3-the-electric-suv-ready-to-shake-up-the-ev-world

How is Rivian supposed to compete with this with their R2? 400V, 200kw, 300 mile EPA range.

The R1 is Rivian’s “flagship” product, so I would think Rivian can splurge on it a bit, to figure out the battery tech and eventually pass it onto the R2 and other vehicles. And the R1 quad max is the highest priced vehicle. So, I was a bit disappointed that Rivian didn’t take the opportunity to try it out.

Hypothetically, if the R1 quad max were 800v yet cost $15k more over R1 tri max, I think consumers would still buy the quad max for the 800v.

 

[Dohmar]

This is defeatist garbage, and if it were true, China would have never become competitive with the US in anything in the first place as they started out behind.

I'm in Australia. Totally jonesing for an R2. I couldnt care less if its 800v or 400v, since I'd be charging mostly from solar at home level 1, and rarely letting the battery get too low. If I go on a road trip, 30 minutes to top up is adequate for both the car and my bladder/hunger

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Chinese consumers are no longer buying Teslas, in part because of Elon, but also because Tesla’s tech is simply not competitive enough versus BYD, Xiaomi, and others

This doesn't say much, as Tesla's tech isn't competitive here either. Pretty much every other automaker offers greater value and better vehicles over Tesla at this point. Unless your desire to risk your life on a drunk FSD robot driving you around is overwhelming, you can buy pretty much anything else EV and get a better car.

 

[Dark-Fx]

Nope. The battery cells cannot take in 110v or 400v. And cannot take in AC.

Only 3V DC.

When you plug into an 120 or 240v AC outlet there is an AC-DC converter in the car (but not inside the battery) that turns the AC to 400V DC. The 400V DC enters the battery where it is reduced to 3V DC (through series voltage division ) to charge the cells.

A DC fast charger does the same thing however the ac/dc conversion happens in the cabinet instead of in the car's AC/DC converter.

No matter what you plug into the cells only ever see 3 volts.

And an 800v pack is the same. 800v enters the pack but is still reduced to 3 volts.

You can't just look at a cell as if it were in a vacuum. All electrical resistance contributes to pack heating. Because of the way electrical resistance turns into wasted energy (It's current squared), you need significantly less material at the pack level and it will generate less heat.

 

[theonetruestripes]

At some point, even US consumers will start comparing and make their choices. It doesn’t matter whether one “needs” 400v. It’ll be like a horsepower contest, where all else equal, consumers will choose the one with the higher horsepower.

Could be, but people tend to hyperfixite on one or two metrics, not 12. So “HP” (only), or “HP and Torque” or “HP and Range” not “HP, Charging speed, and Range”.

Look at the gas car world, people talk about HP like that is everything. Or occasionally 0-60 times. Or sometimes torque.

I’m not saying charge speed isn’t important, but getting people to focus on it is an uphill battle. It could end up being one of the items some people look at (like some people are “I need a 3 row SUV”), but getting to the point that everyone wants it? Not happening soon at any rate.

(and yes, I think if all the DC fast chargers support 800V being able to double the charge speed is almost as good as doubling the range and generally less expensive, but getting the average first time EV buyer to look at that? Not easy!)

 

[jaredm]

Here I am, clicking this thread thinking it's about the Quad range estimates..

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