NACS cables now being installed at RAN stations

[CharonPDX]

NACS is also going to increase the confusion of people not understanding the difference between level 2 and DC charging with the connectors all being identical.

Heck, when I first got my Tesla, I had this confusion. At the time "Superchargers were in strip malls, Destination Chargers were at hotels and restaurants."

I went on a trip, stopped at a hotel, plugged in, went to my room….. It was a Supercharger. I had to move just as I was settling in. (They were then-brand-new "Urban Supercharger" style that didn't look like "normal Superchargers", and I hadn't seen a Wall Unit yet, only V2/V3 style Superchargers, so didn't realize this much smaller dispenser was a Supercharger.)

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[mkhuffman]

Heck, when I first got my Tesla, I had this confusion. At the time "Superchargers were in strip malls, Destination Chargers were at hotels and restaurants."

I went on a trip, stopped at a hotel, plugged in, went to my room….. It was a Supercharger. I had to move just as I was settling in. (They were then-brand-new "Urban Supercharger" style that didn't look like "normal Superchargers", and I hadn't seen a Wall Unit yet, only V2/V3 style Superchargers, so didn't realize this much smaller dispenser was a Supercharger.)

I don't understand how the plug type contributed to that confusion.

After the charge starts, I always check the speed and estimated time of completion. So I know when/if I need to move my truck.

 

[CharonPDX]

I don't understand how the plug type contributed to that confusion.

After the charge starts, I always check the speed and estimated time of completion. So I know when/if I need to move my truck.

J1772/CCS you can tell instantly by the plug if it's AC or DC. Driving a J3400 vehicle, you can instantly tell which adapter to use.

On J3400 dispenser, you have to know. Yes, I'm sure most will be really obvious with even a little research ahead of time, but the number of people who *YEARS AGO* thought a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter would let them charge at a Supercharger proves there's tons of confusion.

 

[VSG]

& with an NACS plug, just because it fits in your NACS outlet doesn't mean you can even charge. E.g. at a Tesla charger that isn't open to non-Teslas.

NACS is a specification for the physical connection, it doesn't mandate the communication protocol. (J3400 supports CCS protocols, but doesn't require them, and specifically allows other protocols to be used, even proprietary ones.) The Tesla chargers that don't work, which are about 1/3 of them, use a proprietary Tesla protocol. There is no way of telling just by looking at the connector whether it's going to work at all.

 

[CharonPDX]

& with an NACS plug, just because it fits in your NACS outlet doesn't mean you can even charge. E.g. at a Tesla charger that isn't open to non-Teslas.

NACS is a specification for the physical connection, it doesn't mandate the communication protocol. (J3400 supports CCS protocols, but doesn't require them, and specifically allows other protocols to be used, even proprietary ones.) The Tesla chargers that don't work, which is about 1/3 of them, use a proprietary Tesla protocol. There is no way of telling just by looking at the connector whether it's going to work at all.

Heck, I have a Tesla vehicle that hasn't been upgraded to support CCS. Which means I can't use non-Tesla J3400 stations. So even though this RAN station now has a connector that will physically fit into my Tesla's charge port, and is open to non-Rivian EVs, I can't use it with my Tesla.

 

[VSG]

Heck, I have a Tesla vehicle that hasn't been upgraded to support CCS. Which means I can't use non-Tesla J3400 stations. So even though this RAN station now has a connector that will physically fit into my Tesla's charge port, and is open to non-Rivian EVs, I can't use it with my Tesla.

Yep. Entirely preventable confusion.

 

[mkhuffman]

J1772/CCS you can tell instantly by the plug if it's AC or DC. Driving a J3400 vehicle, you can instantly tell which adapter to use.

On J3400 dispenser, you have to know. Yes, I'm sure most will be really obvious with even a little research ahead of time, but the number of people who *YEARS AGO* thought a Tesla-to-J1772 adapter would let them charge at a Supercharger proves there's tons of confusion.

That's true, but different connectors can also be confusing to new BEV people.

ICEV drivers are used to one gas pump dispenser, regardless of the type of fuel used. Someone can put diesel fuel in their car and ruin the engine. Is that more confusing or less confusing than a common connecter used for all charging scenarios?

Personally, I think one connector type is less confusing than two. And if they plug into something that doesn't work, at least it isn't like putting diesel into the engine. No damage will occur.

And this can't happen either:

 

[Galluprivian]

Something else I've noticed when using Tesla fast chargers with a converter is that the converter can heat up in hot weather which causes the charger to dial back the amount of power until is cools off. This happened in Phoenix and the new charger in Cortez, CO.

 

[emoore]

Something else I've noticed when using Tesla fast chargers with a converter is that the converter can heat up in hot weather which causes the charger to dial back the amount of power until is cools off. This happened in Phoenix and the new charger in Cortez, CO.

I've seen that too but in my experience it only throttles down a little bit, like to 130kW vs 150+ of what it should be. Not the end of the world and much better than the 36kW throttling that EA does.

 

[Galluprivian]

I've seen that too but in my experience it only throttles down a little bit, like to 130kW vs 150+ of what it should be. Not the end of the world and much better than the 36kW throttling that EA does.

Huh, I didn't see the kW numbers but noticed that the time it was estimated to take abruptly went from 24 min to 40. It adjusted again and I didn't time it but it definitely slowed the process. You're right that in the end, it's probably not a big deal.

 

[VSG]

Throttling the speed when the plug heats up is a fundamental part of the J3400 specification. Because NACS doesn't specify a maximum current allowed, temperature is the method used to determine when the combined system (charger/adapter/vehicle) reaches the limits of its capability for power transfer. And yes, that limit can be lower depending on the adapter used (if any), and whether you're parked with the charge port in direct sunlight, etc.

So be aware this is not an "error" - it is how the system is designed to work.

EA throttling down to 36kW or so is a different thing - it's a characteristic of how their particular dispensers used to behave when the cable cooling fails. I think the new generation of dispensers doesn't do this any more, but I think many/most of their dispensers may still be the old version.

 

[Galluprivian]

Throttling the speed when the plug heats up is a fundamental part of the J3400 specification. Because NACS doesn't specify a maximum current allowed, temperature is the method used to determine when the combined system (charger/adapter/vehicle) reaches the limits of its capability for power transfer. And yes, that limit can be lower depending on the adapter used (if any), and whether you're parked with the charge port in direct sunlight, etc.

So be aware this is not an "error" - it is how the system is designed to work.

EA throttling down to 36kW or so is a different thing - it's a characteristic of how their particular dispensers used to behave when the cable cooling fails. I think the new generation of dispensers doesn't do this any more, but I think many/most of their dispensers may still be the old version.

I'm aware that it's not an error and I certainly don't want to melt my converter. It's just another thing to navigate when you're trying to get home from Moab.

 

[Zoidz]

Someone can put diesel fuel in their car and ruin the engine. Is that more confusing or less confusing than a common connecter used for all charging scenarios?

Unless someone is a pure idiot, It's all but impossible to put diesel in a gasoline vehicle by accident. A diesel pump nozzle is larger diameter and won't fit in an gas filler neck. Our BMW X3d is diesel.

 

[mkhuffman]

Unless someone is a pure idiot, It's all but impossible to put diesel in a gasoline vehicle by accident. A diesel pump nozzle is larger diameter and won't fit in an gas filler neck. Our BMW X3d is diesel.

That is true but is it possible.

More possible is putting gas in a diesel car. The size difference won't stop you. When you loan your X3 to someone who might need to refuel it, do you warn them about making that mistake?

I am just saying that a standard connector is less confusing and there is no chance of damage.

I have lost track of how many times I have plugged in and it didn't work. And the connector type had nothing to do with it. I don't see how different connectors improves anything from a user experience perspective.

 

[Zoidz]

That is true but is it possible.

More possible is putting gas in a diesel car. The size difference won't stop you. When you loan your X3 to someone who might need to refuel it, do you warn them about making that mistake?

I am just saying that a standard connector is less confusing and there is no chance of damage.

I have lost track of how many times I have plugged in and it didn't work. And the connector type had nothing to do with it. I don't see how different connectors improves anything from a user experience perspective.

The X3d has a "blocking flap" mechanism in the filler neck that is supposed to only release when the wider diesel neck is inserted. It's supposed to stop someone from inserting a gasoline filler neck. The problem is it works too well - sometimes you have to try several times with the diesel filler neck to get the flap to open. I'm not sure if this flap exists on other diesel vehicles.

In the past 9 years, we have never loaned the X3d to anyone, unlikely to ever happen, but I would make sure they know.

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