Musk Forbes article.

[SwampNut]

Then what is the point of mentioning that Elon has done "societal good" in a discussion about his crimes and scams?

You should go read it again (and again), until you see that it was an answer to an already off topic comparison, and completely incorrect claim. Keep trying.

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[Donald Stanfield]

You should go read it again (and again), until you see that it was an answer to an already off topic comparison, and completely incorrect claim. Keep trying.

No matter how many times I read it, it will still be an irrelevant comment. Unless you are justifying Elon's crimes by mentioning "societal good", there's no point in bringing it up in this conversation. Is Elon guilty of fraud, yes or no? If yes, should he be punished for his fraudulent actions?

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Can't answer that one can you? Because your answer will expose how much you are Elon's boy.

 

[SwampNut]

Can't answer that one can you?

I've answered it repeatedly. You just can't let this go, can you, and see that you're not the arbiter of relevance on the internet? I, however, see when something is pointless and can walk away and let you think you won something here. Enjoy.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I've answered it repeatedly. You just can't let this go, can you, and see that you're not the arbiter of relevance on the internet?

No, you haven't. Is Elon a con man, yes or no? Does he deserve punishment yes or no? Telling me "I've answered this" is not an answer.

 

[COdogman]

I'm sorry you're still confused after I've used very plain English to state something at a fairly simple level. I completely agree. The societal benefits happened anyway. Hope that helps, I used AI to distill it with the simplest language possible.

Except evidence of any “benefit” (you pointed to 1 person) is outweighed by the constant lies, cons, hateful conspiracies, etc., etc…. We don’t even need to mention his run in DC, which added quite a bit to that resume.

If you prefer to keep it to autonomous cars, he has lied about its capabilities for years, collecting money for something that doesn’t exist while putting everyone else in danger as part of his experiment. When the whole story finally comes out, his behavior will actually hurt the push for autonomous driving.

That is not a net “benefit”. These industries will succeed despite Leon, not because of him.

 

[SwampNut]

Except evidence of any “benefit” (you pointed to 1 person) is outweighed by the constant lies, cons, hateful conspiracies, etc., etc…. We don’t even need to mention his run in DC, which added quite a bit to that resume.

Thanks for a rational opinion. I disagree with some of what you followed up with. That's how this should work.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

That is not a net “benefit”. These industries will succeed despite Leon, not because of him.

This. When you make irresponsible software with an inadequate sensor suite for the prescribed task, you make self-driving cars look less safe and less realistic. When you lie about your software's capabilities it hurts the entire industry as well. When your autonomus taxis require a "safety driver" in each and every one it's obvious your software isn't ready.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Thanks for a rational opinion. I disagree with some of what you followed up with. That's how this should work.

Yet you refuse to give a simple answer to a straightforward question. That's how this should work.

 

[SwampNut]

Yet you refuse to give a simple answer to a straightforward question. That's how this should work.

LOL! Like a rabid dog. Sorry your ego is so wrapped up in this.

I literally said that Elmo is a lying weasel, and a narcissistic five year old on ketamine. Those exact words. I've spent well over a decade saying this while also noting that Tesla was the best car choice for most people for a long time, and other things his companies did well. You seem to be unable to see anything other than derangement.

Now you go back to ignore, this is boring.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

LOL! Like a rabid dog. Sorry your ego is so wrapped up in this.

I literally said that Elmo is a lying weasel, and a narcissistic five year old on ketamine. Those exact words. I've spent well over a decade saying this while also noting that Tesla was the best car choice for most people for a long time, and other things his companies did well. You seem to be unable to see anything other than derangement.

Now you go back to ignore, this is boring.

Notice how the answer to whether or not Elon should be punished is curiously STILL absent. Keep on defending all his "societal good".

 

[sacramentoelectric]

Nor were helped. Meanwhile Tesla (and other Musk companies) have provided significant global societal benefits. Tesla ADAS has failed a few times, while also preventing or mitigating tens of thousands of other collisions. We can see that the net is positive, and crazy people who claim that one single failure is a total failure are just nuts. Starlink has had a massive positive effect, and I can't come up with any negatives. Unless you're one of the ISPs stealing tax dollars for infrastructure but doing nothing. They were "hurt" by Starlink. Should Musk stop lying? Of course. Has he been connected to a shitload of benefits too? Duh.

This is about fraud, not the balance of his total utility vs harm. Sure, he's done some GREAT stuff and Tesla's ADAS is a really good, maybe the very best level 2 adas. He's done amazing things I could never get close to achieving but the guy was straight up lying for years about self driving just to hype his stock and PEOPLE DIED. It's not that a single failure makes the system a total failure. We don't stop flying when a plane crashes but accidents aren't the same thing as when people actively cover up or ignore known safety issues. Do we really want to live in a society where the ends always justify the means?

And it's not like you have to shrug your shoulders at the deaths in order to have an ethical, marketable, and excellent ADAS. Calling it self driving is brazen fraud. It's not, never was, and may never be. If it was sold as "Tesla Driver Assist," they came down hard on defeat devices, and made a good faith effort to put safety first, I think most people would be rooting for Tesla. Unfortunately, they've been so dishonest for so long, so brazenly self righteous, so reckless, I don't know anyone could ever trust them again with the current management in place. Which is a huge shame and a tragic self inflicted wound.

 

[ARGi]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanoh...ng-tesla-lies-are-finally-catching-up-to-him/

Musk has always been a liar. He has gambled with people's lives from the beginning with no moral compass at all. He's crooked and the board of Tesla-naires support their money maker. Screw them all. If you buy a Tesla today, I'm not a fan of you either.

Rivian, all the way, every day.

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