12-Month review: I can't recommend the R1S for most people

[SwampNut]

Tons of people buy 4Runners in full off road guise with no intention to ever take them off road - do they all go to 4Runner forums and complain about the crappy mileage, poor turning radius, ancient technology and so on?

Probably, just like Jeep buyers who do the same thing, and bitch about it.

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[peace and quiet]

What

The main problem with this forum is that it is sadly infested with cultist hardcore Rivian fanboys, you know who you are. When someone presents his Rivian experience that contradicts and belies what these folks so blindly and stupidly believe, i.e., Rivians are the greatest in every way, they crawl out of the woodwork and attack the messenger. Have seen it plenty, this thread included.

Fanboys….Trolls….eh.

What about spending every post being intentionally antagonistic….

I’ll take fanboys over that every day.

 

[strykerwsu]

Define "better."

My Rivian, and seemingly most, have vastly more problems that require service. I've had more repairs in 15k miles than I had in 40k on the Tesla, by far.

ADAS--obviously objectively far better on the Tesla, that's an easy one.

Luxury? Rivian wins of course, easily. But it's a $105k vehicle against a $40k vehicle...no comparison.

Charging options--Tesla obviously wins, that's just a math fact of having more chargers that are Tesla only.

Charging speed--my Tesla was consistently faster at the same locations.

I do like the Rivian UI a bit better, other than it seems to have more bugs/reboots. Not a big deal.

So...I want to hear what is better without involving some political shit about their Glorious Leader.

I will play as I have 2 Rivians and Model 3. I will stick with stock offerings. For example I like my Rivians with Comma better than FSD as FSD is great but doesnt allow enough user input.

Quality - Rivian. Model 3 is what 6 years into production and I have had 2 tow warranty events in 18k and none in 1st year or 2nd year Rivian.

Luxury - Rivian. As expected however my $ difference is about $25k due to reservation pricing.

ADAS - Tesla. Rivian (Gen1) stock is meh

Adaptability - Rivian. Tesla 2 vehicles in 1 (Sporty, Family) Rivian- 3 vehicles in 1, (Lowered Sporty) Family, Offroad).

Charging - Push - at least for me. Essentially able to use all Superchargers I need or other non Supercharger option available. Was not this way before majority of network opened.

UI - Push. Both have plus and minus.

Unique - Rivian. Every other car seems to be a Tesla 3 or Y.

Overall Model 3 is an amazing appliance and road tripper for sure. I would buy another Tesla but I won't sale my Rivians. Rivians so the same and I can go offroad, cook off my camp kitchen, have 12 gallons of water from frunk, tent on top etc. Understand some are aftermarket but no such options exist for my Tesla without losing space that I use.

 

[lefkonj]

The main problem with this forum is that it is sadly infested with cultist hardcore Rivian fanboys, you know who you are. When someone presents his Rivian experience that contradicts and belies what these folks so blindly and stupidly believe, i.e., Rivians are the greatest in every way, they crawl out of the woodwork and attack the messenger. Have seen it plenty, this thread included.

I am what you can a Rivian Fanboy and I have acknowledged multiple problems but the OP was complaining about things that are just not realistic. If you buy an Ionic 5N expecting to get a I4M50 you are the problem not the vehicle. An R1S is not intended to a Range Rover, nor is it a RAV4. People's lack of research doesn't equal a poor quality vehicle.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Define "better."

My Rivian, and seemingly most, have vastly more problems that require service. I've had more repairs in 15k miles than I had in 40k on the Tesla, by far.

ADAS--obviously objectively far better on the Tesla, that's an easy one.

Luxury? Rivian wins of course, easily. But it's a $105k vehicle against a $40k vehicle...no comparison.

Charging options--Tesla obviously wins, that's just a math fact of having more chargers that are Tesla only.

Charging speed--my Tesla was consistently faster at the same locations.

I do like the Rivian UI a bit better, other than it seems to have more bugs/reboots. Not a big deal.

So...I want to hear what is better without involving some political shit about their Glorious Leader.

Sure thing. First, Rivians don't look like a melted jelly bean. Second, Rivians have a driver display. Third, Rivian has a much nicer interior design aesthetic, as well as a decent exterior design. Fourth, Rivian offers basic features, such as an overhead camera view. Fifth, Rivian doesn't have stupid turn-signal buttons or a yoke where a wheel should be.

Tesla's exterior design came from a time when batteries were much worse than they are now, so every ounce of drag mattered. Today, batteries still aren't great, but they are good enough to make a more pleasing exterior. The refresh did a little, but it's a little too little and a little too late, especially when the interiors look cheap and tacky. If I wanted to look like I raided an Ikea, I'd buy a Tesla.

Charging options don't really matter to me personally, as I charge at home 99% of the time, and when I don't, there are plenty of stations my Rivian can use. Same with charging speed, neither Tesla nor Rivian is as good as ICE is, but both are good enough for a road trip if you're taking your time.

For my use, the ADS is more than enough on my Gen 2 Rivian. It drives on the freeway well enough that I can relax and take in the traffic as a general overview. I don't need help on my city streets, so I don't care that Tesla has that and Rivian doesn't. If Rivian gets it and it's good, I might use it, but I've been driving for almost 30 years now, and I don't really see what difference it makes at this point.

If I wanted a cheap car with no style, I could buy one for less than Tesla charges. They are overpriced for their complete lack of design.

There, I brought up multiple things without mentioning how much of a dickhead Elmo is.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

I provided receipts, concrete evidence to demonstrate why my Teslas are superior to my Rivian. They just are. Settled law.

Just because your hopeless cultist hardcore Rivian fanboy heart of hearts tells you otherwise DOES NOT make it so.

Teslas are JUNK. That's a fact.

 

[C12farmer]

If I was in your shoes, a top of the line Toyota Sienna with captains chairs is really the solution to all your complaints.

The R1S gen 2 is a great vehicle, but it's not the universal solution for every use case. I still recommend anyone with little kids to get a minivan and live a much happier life. Rather than struggling with getting baby carrier or small kids into seats, while crammed parking space and trying not to door ding the other $100K+ cars parked next yours.

 

[mkhuffman]

Yes I did hear discussion about phase issues. But my listening experience does point to other worse problems. It seems to me between 500hz to 3000hz or so frequency band there is a “horn” like resonance sound, which indicates speakers are not tuned correctly against cabin space to eliminate that resonance. So common remedy is using equalization to raise 5k to 15k band to drown out resonance but the result is whole system becomes even more high pitched and shrieky. This is only my personal experience which relates also to the type of music I enjoy, mostly classical. I also tried using very front sound to eliminate back speakers phasing interference but doesn’t improve anything. Anyway it’ll be very interesting to see what fixing phase can do if someone will figure it out someday.

Did you get the upgraded audio, or do you have the standard audio?

I think the audio in my Tri-Max souinds great, until you turn up the volume. I don't listen to classical, but with what I listen to it sounds pretty balanced. I just wish they would have put all the speakers in phase.

You might try putting your head down between the seats, so you are lined up with the door speakers and about halfway between them. See if it sounds better.

I notice a huge improvement in the lower frequencies when I do that. 500-3000 Hz not "lower", but the phase issue could be causing weird acoustics in that range. IDK. It is true fading all the way to the front should provide similar results. Unless you have the sub. I don't think that is impacted by the fader - just the door speakers are.

 

[ozziegt]

All these people defending the poor ride are insane. The reasons for the poor ride are irrelevant. It doesn't ride like a Luxury SUV (XC90, Cayenne, Range Rover are NOT crossovers, they are luxury SUVs). If he knows his friends are looking for a vehicle that rides like a luxury SUV, then he won't recommend it to them. And you all are basically admitting that he's right.

 

[SwampNut]

A friend was shopping for a luxury SUV last week and I informed him that the R1T rides like a luxury SUV, but the R1S doesn't. He still bought the R1S, and likes it. He was down to a Model X, R1S, or some Toyota/Lexus thing which is a joke of a car (ancient tech, engine issues). He's very happy.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

All these people defending the poor ride are insane. The reasons for the poor ride are irrelevant. It doesn't ride like a Luxury SUV (XC90, Cayenne, Range Rover are NOT crossovers, they are luxury SUVs). If he knows his friends are looking for a vehicle that rides like a luxury SUV, then he won't recommend it to them. And you all are basically admitting that he's right.

Is a G wagen a luxury SUV? A Land Rover Defender? You can expect an R1S to ride as good as that. That's the problem with terms like "luxury SUV' and "poor ride". The XC90 and Cayenne are both on car frames NOT truck frames so the ride is going to be different, that's just plain facts. What's insane is not knowing what a box frame is, and what to expect out of it before you buy it.

 

[SteveInBend]

Finally! We have the sole arbiter of what "most people" want in their vehicle.

 

[sunydrm]

Fourth, Rivian offers basic features, such as an overhead camera view

Tesla does offer something called high fidelity park assist. It shows all curbs and cars around and visualizes the parking lines from an overhead view. The reason they don't have the overhead camera view is it requires a downward facing camera from the side mirrors. Tesla sees this as wasteful because it serves no use other than 360 parking view

Every feature that the 360 parking assist "solves" is already there in a tesla. Need to park centered in a parking spot? It's right there.

need to not curb your tires? It's right there in the visualization. When parallel parking or in a lot you can click on any parking spot, your car will drive there and park. No matter how tight it is

This is the future according to tesla patent filings

Tesla's exterior design came from a time when batteries were much worse than they are now, so every ounce of drag mattered.

Every ounce of drag matters today. Batteries have not improved much. The costs of them are still a problem. Rivian can't make money on the R1S and R1T and having better efficiency would certainly help.

The jellybean design of the model Y is simply because they reused as much of the model 3 as possible. That's not how it would look if they built the car from scratch.

look at R1T compared to cybertruck. R1T has much lower drag coefficient but the efficiency is very poor. Rivian vehicles have relatively poor efficiency. Comparitively hyundai/kia, polestar and mercedes seems to do really well.

 

[Donald Stanfield]

Tesla does offer something called high fidelity park assist. It shows all curbs and cars around and visualizes the parking lines from an overhead view. The reason they don't have the overhead camera view is it requires a downward facing camera from the side mirrors. Tesla sees this as wasteful because it serves no use other than 360 parking view

Every feature that the 360 parking assist "solves" is already there in a tesla. Need to park centered in a parking spot? It's right there.

need to not curb your tires? It's right there in the visualization. When parallel parking or in a lot you can click on any parking spot, your car will drive there and park. No matter how tight it is

This is the future according to tesla patent filings

Every ounce of drag matters today. Batteries have not improved much. The costs of them are still a problem. Rivian can't make money on the R1S and R1T and having better efficiency would certainly help.

The jellybean design of the model Y is simply because they reused as much of the model 3 as possible. That's not how it would look if they built the car from scratch.

look at R1T compared to cybertruck. R1T has much lower drag coefficient but the efficiency is very poor. Rivian vehicles have relatively poor efficiency. Comparitively hyundai/kia, polestar and mercedes seems to do really well.

Rivian DOES make money on the sale of its vehicles. I see you still haven't learned the difference between gross MARGIN and gross PROFIT. You really need to stop spreading falsehoods about that.

I use my 360-degree camera every single time I park. That is a fundamental feature almost every car has, and Tesla is too CHEAP to install it. I'd rather have a vehicle that is less efficient but not ugly than one that looks like a 4th grader drew it.

 

[sunydrm]

Rivian DOES make money on the sale of its vehicles. I see you still haven't learned the difference between gross MARGIN and gross PROFIT. You really need to stop spreading falsehoods about that.

What is rivian's gross margin? Or are you speculating? They'd share this number if it was good

I use my 360-degree camera every single time I park. That is a fundamental feature almost every car has, and Tesla is too CHEAP to install it.

They have the equivalent feature there. It's called high fidelity park assist. Tesla's implementation is more difficult to implement and saves the company money.

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