Rivian Autonomy & AI Day! Lidar, Hands-Free Driving, Rivian Assistant & more announced

[Dark-Fx]

Delayed bounce?

Polestar is up 17% today. I must have missed their news.

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[captainjp]

He's pretty good at inventing a new profile, name. He's less good at creating a new personality with different behavior

I’m almost convinced it’s actually Elon, himself…

 

[BumblebeeCA]

Honestly, what do you expect them to do? As their first vehicle, they had a high cost per vehicle as they had no economy of scale. It was already expensive as they had to raise the price than initially estimaded and received major backlash for it. There was no way they would be able to future proof it with Lidar and their supply chain back then was already difficult as they weren't getting a good price on parts as a new automaker yet to prove themselves. Without the hardware, what they wanted to accomplish just isn't possible. Maybe they thought it was when they first made the promise, but in the now reality, it just isn't possible. Since the R1 launch, Rivian has become a lot more careful about their promises, keeping things close to their chest unless they can confirm with certainty about the timeline and costs. I don't think they left R1 behind on purpose but were limited what they could do with the hardware. I think they learned a lot from the Gen 1, including the limits of their own capabilities of what can actually be accomplished and what can be said. It sucks for R1 owners who had those promises, but I think Rivian was stuck with the position they were in at the time. Unless there is a recall to change all the wiring, ECU, and sensor equipment, it just isn't possible to add more autonomy.

As someone once said (might have been Marquis Brown) buy what is available today, not what is promised in the future.

Driver+ on the Gen1 is just terrible. I'm not looking for L3 autonomous here - no Lidar necessary. What I expect is for the vehicle continue to improve beyond its current capability leveraging the existing equipment on the vehicle. I have two reference points from prior/current vehicles - a 2018 Volvo XC90 and a 2015 Tesla Model S. The adaptive cruise control on the 2018 XC90 was better than the current version of Driver+. And the 2015 Telsa's AutoSteer is also vastly superior to Driver+. This is on a vehicle that isn't even FSD capable for the same reason you point out - the 2015 Tesla tech isn't capable of supporting the current FSD rollout. It is, however, capable of yielding a better product than 2023 Gen1 tech from Rivian, which I find surprising.

I have a hard time believing that the hardware on a 2023 Gen1 R1S is inferior to a 2015 Tesla. My expectation when buying a Rivian was that, like Tesla, the vehicle would improve with software upgrades OTA leveraging the model that Tesla pioneered. Adding millions of miles of road for Autonomy+ for Gen2's is great - but what I hear Rivian saying is "sorry, Gen1...the awful and virtually unusable experience that is Driver+ is all you're going to get". That's disappointing, and I do think this is on purpose and a business decision they're making, and not merely the result of hardware limitations. Vehicles produced years before the Gen1's have superior performance on much older tech.

 

[BumblebeeCA]

Tesla charges $8000 for FSD. RIvian is at $2500. Prices are falling, hardware ready vehicle counts are growing and adoption will too.

$8000 for life or $99/mo. I'd easily pay $10,000 for FSD on my Gen1 R1S, but Rivian has decided to not isolate Gen1's to an useable Driver+ instead.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

He's pretty good at inventing a new profile, name. He's less good at creating a new personality with different behavior

Troll in costume is still a troll

 

[Eric9610]

Tesla charges $8000 for FSD. RIvian is at $2500. Prices are falling, hardware ready vehicle counts are growing and adoption will too.

The biggest difference is that what Rivian is going to charge $50 a month for is free in a Tesla, Driver + max capability in the G2 is autopilot not FSD... It is a deal if they can achieve L4 on the G3 setup, but man liability is gonna be a big deal and the cars will be hard to insure. This feature set will be delayed a long time. Unless Rivian takes liability its DOA. Also one company in this discussion already has a viable product on the road and as such can charge what it wants. Heck Tesla could say $10 a month if they wanted to as the FSD fee is 100% profit.

Another thing to note going from today to PTP self driving is a huge leap and I just don't see Rivian being able to deliver especially with all the buggy issues in every update.

 

[mkhuffman]

The biggest difference is that what Rivian is going to charge $50 a month for is free in a Tesla, Driver + max capability in the G2 is autopilot not FSD... It is a deal if they can achieve L4 on the G3 setup, but man liability is gonna be a big deal and the cars will be hard to insure. This feature set will be delayed a long time. Unless Rivian takes liability its DOA. Also one company in this discussion already has a viable product on the road and as such can charge what it wants. Heck Tesla could say $10 a month if they wanted to as the FSD fee is 100% profit.

Another thing to note going from today to PTP self driving is a huge leap and I just don't see Rivian being able to deliver especially with all the buggy issues in every update.

Pessimistic but you could be correct. It will be very interesting to see much much progress they make in 2026.

I am very excited about the possibility of Personal L4. My Gen3 R1T drives me and my wife to dinner, drops us off at the front door, goes off and parks, and comes back to get us when we are done. Then drives us home when I shouldn't be driving at all. Awesome.

I bet if you go through a sobriety checkpoint you better not be sitting behind the steering wheel. The laws for L4 are going to have to make it easy for law enforcement to enforce drunk driving laws. "Honestly officer, I really wasn't driving" is probably not going to cut it unless you clearly could not be driving.

 

[Yota2R1T]

Pessimistic but you could be correct. It will be very interesting to see much much progress they make in 2026.

I am very excited about the possibility of Personal L4. My Gen3 R1T drives me and my wife to dinner, drops us off at the front door, goes off and parks, and comes back to get us when we are done. Then drives us home when I shouldn't be driving at all. Awesome.

I bet if you go through a sobriety checkpoint you better not be sitting behind the steering wheel. The laws for L4 are going to have to make it easy for law enforcement to enforce drunk driving laws. "Honestly officer, I really wasn't driving" is probably not going to cut it unless you clearly could not be driving.

Speaking of laws... what exactly is the situation regarding legislation, standards, liability?
Is it state / province jurisdiction?
I feel like I'm out of touch on this end of the discussion.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

Polestar is up 17% today. I must have missed their news.

Post reverse-split

 

[mkhuffman]

Speaking of laws... what exactly is the situation regarding legislation, standards, liability?
Is it state / province jurisdiction?
I feel like I'm out of touch on this end of the discussion.

It is possible the Federal Government Department of Transportation will try to promote some sort of standard, but it isn't Fed jurisdiction. This is going to be a state-by-state. L4 might be banned in some states, and allowed in others. I expect many states will copy laws in other states, like they do now. (I doubt any state will ban L4, but it is possible.)

The fun is just beginning.

 

[Eric9610]

I don't think L4 will be banned but we will need liability clarity. In the case of MB L3 today they take liability responsibility when in the mode if the car crashed or violates the law. It is clearly stated in the terms of service. My guess would be that if Rivian does not take liability, you will be responsible for a DUI even if you are in the back seat as you are the insured party.

I can already see cali charging an extra registration fee on cars that have L4 enabled. LOL

 

[HapticWagon]

looks like Gen2 will not be getting eyes-off
as that's only reserved for Gen3 with Lidar.

as per

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

RJ just killed off R1. R2 is gen 3 including LiDAR and Rivian developed AI chip.

This is exactly the reason holding onto EVs for more than 3~5 yrs is just like computers - outdated.

Just as I've said before these vehicles are laptop with wheels and cannot place ICE paradigm onto EVs.

That’s true. I wonder once the features get good enough what will incentivize people to buy new vehicles? Will profits be completely generated by digital services and licensing tech/electrical architecture to other companies?

 

[elatrickWheels]

A few things I took from this presentation:
1. It was billed as autonomy day, and futures beyond autonomy were out of scope.
2. There was a lot of AI-speak that is intentionally mumbo-jumbo to the vast majority of listeners. The intention is to demonstrate that they have AI chops.
3. It's tempting to view many of these enhancements as incremental change to the way we currently drive. (If you rarely even use cruise control, then you're pretty uninterested in driving a car that drives itself.) However, I think that's missing the point. The point is robotaxis, and that's a change in kind rather than a change in degree. After my first ride in a Waymo, I immediately got it and would never want to be in an Uber or old-fashioned taxi again. Robotaxis are going to change transportation and even cities completely. Rivian has just announced that they have a big dog in that fight. You could replace the entire fleet of cars currently in San Francisco with an autonomous fleet a fraction of the size. Parking no longer an issue. Clean air, much quieter streets, less congestion, maybe more pedestrian-only zones.
4. Others have mentioned senior independence, and that's a big deal. There's the famous situation of having to "take Dad's keys away from him." Perhaps that will no longer be a thing to worry about.

 

[Volabisi]

So buy it for the option price of $2500 up front instead then?

A wise man (MKBHD) once said “Spend your hard earned money for what is available today and never for the promise of what is to come tomorrow.”

Another wise man (Sean Paul) said “a promise is comfort to a fool.”

I went through this before with Tesla. Back in 2017 when they promised FSD formerly known as Autopilot. Bought it for $3K and well… we all know how that worked out. So now I’ll reference another man who may not be as smart lol (George Bush) “Fool me once, well, you just can’t get fooled again.” Whenever this thing is finished cooking, then I’ll evaluate its value and worth in my life style. Until then, I won’t be the fool that pays a corporation to be their beta tester for something that can kill me and my family. Anyone agree that they should make it free until it’s ready for full non beta release?

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