RJ on CarPlay (Autoblog Post / Stratechery Interview)

[mkhuffman]

So you don't have an objection to CarPlay, you want to attack Apple. This isn't the place for it. Your flip phone has a GPS in it too, by the way, and is being tracked. That's a mandatory legal requirement.

This is such a stupid argument. And I don't mean you, I mean the two of us arguing about privacy concerns.

Just to set the record straight, I don't have any bad feelings about Apple or any other technology company. I prefer Android, but holy crap Google tracks everything as well. It isn't better for sure.

All I am saying is if you use your your Apple devices for everything you listen to or navigate to, Apple knows everything you are doing. By using the Rivian specific apps you disconnect at least that part of your life from Apple (or Google in my case). IMO it improves your online privacy to use different devices and different technology companies for different things.

But that is just how I look at it. You are not concerned about it, so fine. You are good. Apple is good. I have no issues with you or Apple. I am just explaining why I think using the Rivian platform is better for on-line privacy.

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[captainjp]

I have learned a lot about strippers and porn stars from his show in the past, sure.

Complete ignorance.
Yeah, I’d much rather listen to Smartless, and Call her Daddy and Talk Tuah. All great educational podcasts.

 

[JM.]

Yeah, I’d much rather listen to Smartless, and Call her Daddy and Talk Tuah. All great educational podcasts.

Never heard of them, but you do you, I won't judge.

 

[captainjp]

I won't judge

lol.
Some of the most judgmental posts on this forum

 

[JM.]

I disabled CP for some errands today. Fun to remember what the Rivian internal garbage is like.

I needed to do a title transfer, let's find DMV. I typed "Motor veh" and got junk. Did the same on Apple Maps, it showed the one closest to me, with all its info, street view photos, and everything you'd want.

On my second drive I got the random bug where neither the steering buttons nor the built-in screen buttons work to control the playback. Have to do it on the phone in the podcast app. No, I was not listening to Stern. Nor whatever other whacky stuff was posted above. This fixed itself on the next drive, it always does.

I wanted to go to a store that I visit maybe once a year and can't remember the location. Type in the name, and Rivian gives me three locations of a place with the same name...in another country. Seriously. Apple Maps did what you would expect, again.

I got a phone call on my business line. This can only be answered either with CarPlay/Android Auto or by whipping out the phone to do so. The Rivian can only deal with the main phone line.

When I switched to music, that's when the Rivian system blows away CP, much better quality than BT of course. Otherwise, trash.

 

[1.21 Gigawatts]

Native control...but Amazon Alexa is okay? Ahhh, no, this is driven by the Bezos investment in Rivan. The alexa interface is garbage. Where's the Amazon Music icon via bluetooth? Oh that's right they want to resell you a subscription you already have. The Android Auto experience in my wife's 2018 Buick far exceeds my Rivian. Fix it RJ!

 

[COdogman]

Native control...but Amazon Alexa is okay? Ahhh, no, this is driven by the Bezos investment in Rivan. The alexa interface is garbage. Where's the Amazon Music icon via bluetooth? Oh that's right they want to resell you a subscription you already have. The Android Auto experience in my wife's 2018 Buick far exceeds my Rivian. Fix it RJ!

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Honestly, other than Connect+ subscription fees, I don't know what data/revenue Rivian is losing by having users utilize CP. They already have access to your location at all times. Not sure what data they are currently monitizing, I'd expect that they don't get a rev share on any of the audio services except for "maybe" a bounty on SXM signups (which doesn't require C+ to my knowledge).

GM has already removed CP from their EVs, but at least they are using Android Automotive and seem to have an App Store with many of the apps people want/use.

 

[Just Passing By]

Honestly, other than Connect+ subscription fees, I don't know what data/revenue Rivian is losing by having users utilize CP.

I don't believe lack of AA/CP is about revenue for Rivian, at least not at this stage and not directly as a service fee. What I suspect is driving the exclusion is a desire to collect data about every interaction between the driver and the vehicle in order to improve the overall experience and to establish increasing differentiation between Rivian and other auto brands.

If Rivian supports AA/CP then the interface to the car becomes essentially the same as every other vehicle with AA/CP = commodification with no differentiation and no ability to create preference based on UX attributes and features. As an illustration of this I just watched a YT 4Runner review by Alex on Autos/Auto Buyers Guide where he praised the fact he could just use the whole infotainment screen for CP and never use the rest of the Toyota infotainment software.

Obviously Alex's comment in the video aligns with the sentiments expressed in a number of prior comments. Today, Rivian will be perceived by some as providing a negative experience vs. AA/CP due to a lack of depth in desired apps, but I suspect Rivian are playing the long game here for the reasons outlined above. Clearly if they support AA/CP as an interim solution then they will have problems putting that genie back in the bottle in the future ... and they miss out on the learning they can get from drivers interacting with their system.

 

[captainjp]

I disabled CP for some errands today. Fun to remember what the Rivian internal garbage is like.

I needed to do a title transfer, let's find DMV. I typed "Motor veh" and got junk. Did the same on Apple Maps, it showed the one closest to me, with all its info, street view photos, and everything you'd want.

On my second drive I got the random bug where neither the steering buttons nor the built-in screen buttons work to control the playback. Have to do it on the phone in the podcast app. No, I was not listening to Stern. Nor whatever other whacky stuff was posted above. This fixed itself on the next drive, it always does.

I wanted to go to a store that I visit maybe once a year and can't remember the location. Type in the name, and Rivian gives me three locations of a place with the same name...in another country. Seriously. Apple Maps did what you would expect, again.

I got a phone call on my business line. This can only be answered either with CarPlay/Android Auto or by whipping out the phone to do so. The Rivian can only deal with the main phone line.

When I switched to music, that's when the Rivian system blows away CP, much better quality than BT of course. Otherwise, trash.

Maybe the Rivian UX is mirroring your personality. You know, kinda like how dogs and their owners look alike?

 

[timgradywy]

I'm a strong believer in "Yes and...".

The latest OS makes using EVPlay (CarPlay) 50/50 for me. SiriusXM finally works (I have a subscription but it wouldn't connect before), is relatively easy to use/stable (other than arranging favorites which fails every single time...), and sounds better than Sirius via Bluetooth. The latest maps visualizations are much better and the drivers screen maps are great. However, calling, searching, voice assistant, non-integrated apps, texting, etc. are all still MUCH better in CarPlay. It's been 2 years and the basic Rivian bluetooth stack is still terrible (wrong album art, starts playing when I'm around the truck, but not when I'm in it, terrible navigation of music library, etc.) and integrated 'apps' aren't much better, so I'm not holding out a lot of hope... Rivian could get there eventually, but the lack of CarPlay seems like a spiritual/commercial jihad rather than an actual engineering/user-based decision. I'll bet that if they said "pay us $1k and we'll enable it", a significant portion of their existing owners would do just that.

The other big thing is that in the used market, CarPlay is a HUGE deal. It allows you to have a 20 year old car (or older) with modern electronics. Some need adapters or stereo replacements, but it's essentially an 'easy button' tech upgrade. That's pretty important if you plan to buy your truck and keep it after you've paid off your loan.

 

[JM.]

Maybe the Rivian UX is mirroring your personality.

Straightforward and not giving a fuck? Maybe.

I'm a strong believer in "Yes and...".

I love that song too!

I have a road trip today, turning CP back on, for sure.

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