R2 buyers - will you wait for gen 3 hardware (including LiDAR)?

[Webleyaz]

How the heck do you expect to get around a cyclist on a two-lane back road (one lane going each way)? Run them over?

Of course, you have to ease across the double yellow to pass them. I do the same when there's a mail truck stopped putting mail into a roadside mailbox. I also cross the double yellow if someone is walking on the side of the road (if there's no sidewalk) to give them enough clearance. It's all common sense. Now I'm not talking full-on assault with my car fully across the double yellow, but enough to give room.

Thank you! I'll be quoting gemini if I ever get pulled over for this. BTW, I find myself opposed to bicyclists many times as they seem to pick and choose which laws they'll follow while demanding all others obey whatever laws they deem necessary for their comfort. But that's a whole 'nother tangent.

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[TimK]

I've had my Model 3 (Hardware 4) driving me around for 68% of my driving in the past month, since I got the FSD 14.2.x trial in late November. My wife will have none of it. She shakes her head, even though this thing has been right on the money, stopping at stop signs/stop lights, going through roundabouts, and even taking an 83-mile trip from our house to my parents' (along surface streets and interstates) without any driver intervention.

I'm so impressed that I signed up for the $99/month subscription (when my trial ends on January 7). I asked my wife if she wanted it on her Model Y (Hardware 3), and, well... you can imagine how that went

My FSD experience is why I won't settle for anything less with the R2 I have on order (well, $100 deposit on).

Have you had any instances where you have road debris or a bad pothole? Does FSD see those? I have a 2018 Model 3 HW 2.5 and when I've used FSD it will happily drive into the tank traps we call potholes here in Chicago.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Have you had any instances where you have road debris or a bad pothole? Does FSD see those? I have a 2018 Model 3 HW 2.5 and when I've used FSD it will happily drive into the tank traps we call potholes here in Chicago.

I actually had an instance this morning where it dodged roadkill. There was a dead squirrel right dead-center in the middle of my lane (two-lane back road, one lane going each way). There were no cars behind me and no cars coming in the opposite direction. It veered left, crossed the double yellow slightly, and then proceeded to get back into its lane. I think that's a bit "much" for a squirrel...

However, I've had a similar occurrence where there are two lanes going one way, or a two-lane road, where it couldn't safely dodge the obstacle (object in road, pothole, etc). In those cases, it would slow down and wait for traffic to clear before dodging the object.

It also safely dodged a ladder at highway speeds (around 75 mph) last week. I think we both saw it at the same time, and I reflexively put my hands up to take over, but it was already taking action.

Another instance that kind of impressed me is that I was on I-40, this past weekend with four lanes going one way. My car was in the third lane (next to the fast lane). I was doing 75-ish in a 65, and the car in the fast lane was going slightly faster, passing me at a leisurely clip. A lifted truck came up behind the car in the fast lane and started tailgating as we were side by side. My car then put its blinker on, and moved to the second lane to get the f**k out of there

 

[evguy]

I personally think Rivian should do one of two things. One, delay the launch of the R2 until late 2026, so the latest hardware and sensors can be included. Two, leave a space for the lidar and sensors to easily be installed at a later time. Honestly the easiest thing would be to delay. Of course there might be buyers who could care less about autonomy, so why not sell them an R2 early? I think it works out either way. It’ll be a while before the new hardware and sensors are fully utilized anyway (see Tesla working on autonomy for over a decade). I think Rivian will do it in less than half the time due to AI advancements.

My two cents: I don't think Rivian should delay R2 production and I don't think they will. Their no. 1 priority is growth and they need to show progress on that front this year. Delaying risks another year of "flat" sales, which they cannot afford. R2 production this year will be low volume as they ramp, maybe 15k to 20k (Wall St is forecasting deliveries of 16k), and I think there are more than enough buyers on the wait list who won't mind missing out on lidar to snap those up. They need to hit large volume production of R2 by 2028, which is when the Georgia plant is supposed to come online.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

My two cents: I don't think Rivian should delay R2 production and I don't think they will. Their no. 1 priority is growth and they need to show progress on that front this year. Delaying risks another year of "flat" sales, which they cannot afford. R2 production this year will be low volume as they ramp, maybe 15k to 20k (Wall St is forecasting deliveries of 16k), and I think there are more than enough buyers on the wait list who won't mind missing out on lidar to snap those up. They need to hit large volume production of R2 by 2028, which is when the Georgia plant is supposed to come online.

I agree. I changed my opinion on Rivian delaying the R2 based on the low volume ramp up approach, which seems to happen to most automakers when they release a new model. This will allow them to manage demand and work out any bugs along the way. This can take several years, so 2028 sounds plausible.

 

[southerncadesi]

Non Lidar R2 owners be like:

 

[Rizzian]

It's not about deciding if you want or need hands free or Lidar, It's about wether you want the R2 enough to have it for 6 glorious months before it becomes the stepchild to new 3rd gen architecture. Regardless of what anyone says about continued support and updates, as soon as there is a new HW platform, Rivian's engineers will make development for that platform their top priority. "Old" platform updates and requests move into an "ongoing support" queue that will largely be ignored. This is just how software development works and it will leave all of the die hards and early adopters in the dust. 6months in, you'll be sitting in your "New", outdated Rivian R2- crossing your fingers every month and hoping for any scraps of 3rd Gen OTA updates and functionality to eventually trickle down to your hardware.

I understand that everything evolves and chasing technology can make you crazy unless you can either update to a new EV every 12-18 months or learn to be happy with your car exactly as it sits in your driveway, assuming that there might not be any more updates or fixes down the road. I'm clearly still working through my R1S Gen 1 abandonment issues.

 

[Whelming]

I was going to be waiting for a tri-motor and I really don't care about self-driving features, but just the choice to brazenly announce that they'll be screwing over the first wave of buyers so quickly really makes it hard to take Rivian seriously as a company with a strong future.

They're on such a razor's edge with R2's success, I honestly can't fathom why they'd announce this right before production is supposed to start like it was somehow a good thing.

Edit to add my vote: I'll be waiting for a Scout SUV and skipping the R2 entirely, I think.

 

[sparked]

I was going to be waiting for a tri-motor and I really don't care about self-driving features, but just the choice to brazenly announce that they'll be screwing over the first wave of buyers so quickly really makes it hard to take Rivian seriously as a company with a strong future.

They're on such a razor's edge with R2's success, I honestly can't fathom why they'd announce this right before production is supposed to start like it was somehow a good thing.

People would not be happier if Rivian wasn't upfront about the timing of Gen 3. Imagine getting a new R2 and Rivian surprising you with that announcement AFTER purchase. You would be way more mad.

At least Rivian is giving good warning to decide if Personal Level 4 Autonomy is important to you. Rivian had to pick their poison and deal with it as delaying the car six months isn't possible. This is still the more customer friendly of the two choices.

 

[Whelming]

People would not be happier if Rivian wasn't upfront about the timing of Gen 3. Imagine getting a new R2 and Rivian surprising you with that announcement AFTER purchase. You would be way more mad.

At least Rivian is giving good warning to decide if Personal Level 4 Autonomy is important to you. Rivian had to pick their poison and deal with it as delaying the car six months isn't possible. This is still the more customer friendly of the two choices.

Then they should either accelerate the chip production to be the same release time or provide some kind of path to upgrade, even if its a paid option.

The only reason to do it this way is because they value profits over their customers. What they're basically saying to me is, "Hey, we know we're screwing you, but that's cuz we think you're dumb enough to just buy a new one in a couple years anyways."

 

[LoneStar]

Best approach that Rivian should take (read this, not my original idea) is to NOT do the typical "Launch Edition" R2 (Dual, AWD, fancy bits) coming out of the gate, but rather begin with the base configuration (Single, longer range) priced closer to the often stated $45K price. There's likely a bigger pool of buyers seeking that intro R2 that can accept G2 hardware and capabilities. It's harder to see a big appetite (and this poll proves it) for buyers willing to pay for all the bells & whistles - knowing there's a superior version on the near horizon. The base R2 would be faster and cheaper to build. It likely would get higher sales count to start with versus a "compromised" L.E.

 

[southerncadesi]

Best approach that Rivian should take (read this, not my original idea) is to NOT do the typical "Launch Edition" R2 (Dual, AWD, fancy bits) coming out of the gate, but rather begin with the base configuration (Single, longer range) priced closer to the often stated $45K price. There's likely a bigger pool of buyers seeking that intro R2 that can accept G2 hardware and capabilities. It's harder to see a big appetite (and this poll proves it) for buyers willing to pay for all the bells & whistles - knowing there's a superior version on the near horizon. The base R2 would be faster and cheaper to build. It likely would get higher sales count to start with versus a "compromised" L.E.

Agreed! Honestly the sooner Rivian reveals the gen 3 R2 is going to be $10k-$15k (or whatever the heavier lift is going to be) more expensive than gen 2 R2, I think more people will gladly accept gen 2 R2.

 

[sparked]

Then they should either accelerate the chip production to be the same release time or provide some kind of path to upgrade, even if its a paid option.

Why do they need to make these other more complex choices when 2026 production is limited anyways and the only stated difference is Personal Level 4 Autonomy? The limited number of customers buying in 2026 will know the situation upfront. Gen 2 appears on track to do point to point self driving which is pretty advanced.

Also, I don't think accelerating chip production or lidar is that easy when these things get produced by third parties.

 

[Whelming]

Why do they need to make these other more complex choices when 2026 production is limited anyways and the only stated difference is Personal Level 4 Autonomy? The limited number of customers buying in 2026 will know the situation upfront. Gen 2 appears on track to do point to point self driving which is pretty advanced.

Cuz this is the same crap that they did with the Gen 1s and it was not appreciated by a lot of people who bought them and it's a crappy thing to do the customers you claim to value.

When your entire company is riding on the release of 1 model, it's really stupid to disincentivize people from buying it.

 

[sparked]

Cuz this is the same crap that they did with the Gen 1s and it was not appreciated by a lot of people who bought them and it's a crappy thing to do the customers you claim to value.

My understanding with Gen 1 is that Rivian implied greater levels of autonomy that weren't actually possible. This situation is the opposite where they are saying you need Gen 3 for Personal Level 4 Autonomy which is a very advanced level of autonomy. They never promised Personal Level 4 Autonomy for Gen 2.

It would be big mistake for anyone buying Gen 3 to assume there won't be eventual limitations to it. There will be a Gen 4 and a Gen 5 and so on.

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