New to forums and Rivian - want to discuss my pre-purchase concerns

[getut]

Aha. Thanks for the clarification. I'm concerned you won't find the answer you are looking for in an EV, at least not yet. Plus, you know, chances are, if manufacturers realize they are making their batteries too robust, they will reduce their durability and longevity so they can either save money or make the cars slightly more affordable.

The more info I get, I guess the Silverado is the only one that meets my range needs, but it misses on so many other things. I really want the Rivian and the form factor and the looks. But I just cant let the emotional side of it win. I have to steer towards one that meets the true needs first even if I have to sacrifice wants. The whole reason of this thread was hoping that someone provided information I missed or knew workarounds to any of these issue. But yea, range and the 240 outlet are still my largest deciding factors no matter how much I wanted that to be Rivian. I'm still waiting on a lemon law claim on my current vehicle so I still have some time, so I'll keep popping in to discuss and see what new info pops up on the radar. I actually already have somewhat of a workaround for 240v split phase, but it takes quite a bit of extra money and equipment that I would not need with a vehicle with native 240v split phase out. There just really isnt a workaround for the mileage issue though. True 400 mile range at highway speeds with a Rivian just does not seem possible at the moment. And with that degradation in 10 years, cold and towing, that just doesn't leave a really workable amount of mileage in those scenarios at least nothing comparable to even the long range silverados, much less the max pack.

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[getut]

Can we fix the title? “New to forums and Rivian - want to argue about my pre-purchase concerns”

Just go buy something else.

Ah, so your take is blind acceptance and/or having the same deciding factors that you did for your purchase or no other viewpoint is valid. Got it. This forum is about discussing both pros and cons of any purchase. I have done my due diligence in seeing if anyone could provide additional information I had missed. No one had done that.

But truly, go stuff your pretentious self in a closet. No forum needs people like you who attempt to shut people down with true concerns and wanting to discuss options and learn more if there is more to learn.

You want an echo-chamber for fanboys, not a discussion forum for people trying to make a legitimate decision and to also discuss real industry problems with security and privacy.

 

[Redline]

Dude....you should go back and re-read your posts here...

Sometimes in life you can overcomplicate things and it causes issues. You're doing that here.

Either get the Rivian and enjoy your life or don't and continue to wonder "what if"

 

[freshpow]

Ah, so your take is blind acceptance and/or having the same deciding factors that you did for your purchase or no other viewpoint is valid. Got it. This forum is about discussing both pros and cons of any purchase. I have done my due diligence in seeing if anyone could provide additional information I had missed. No one had done that.

But truly, go stuff your pretentious self in a closet. No forum needs people like you who attempt to shut people down with true concerns and wanting to discuss options and learn more if there is more to learn.

You want an echo-chamber for fanboys, not a discussion forum for people trying to make a legitimate decision and to also discuss real industry problems with security and privacy.

I think your viewpoints are off the reservation, but that doesn't make them any less valid since they’re yours to begin with and it’s your decision to make.

It’s been clear since your initial post that Rivian is not the vehicle for you, as many have clearly pointed out. Extra range and a 240v outlet aren’t going to magically appear. When others have tried to help you reason around those “limitations”, you just dig yourself in and show you’re not willing to compromise at all on your list. So yeah, just go buy something else.

 

[getut]

I think your viewpoints are off the reservation

Yes, demanding security and privacy for owners is a bridge too far for uneducated people who don't understand the loss and the risks. I am very sorry you are incapable of that level of insight and understanding. The rest of my reasoning was asking real owners if they had found any alternative workarounds because I really do still prefer a Rivian looks and form factor minus those things I said.

It really is a shame that people can't simultaneously like something while calling out severe shortcomings. Like and dislike does not have to be 100% in either direction. Nobody thinks anyone is less of a man because they say, I like Rivian, but will do everything in my power to provide nudges to get bad things fixed and addressed and make no mistake, Rivian and all of the EV companies currently give zero F's about OWNER security and privacy and the government has taken no steps to force these to be handled appropriately. That is why everyone needs to be aware and push back against having their data mined and against forced relationships with the manufacturer even where there in not a documented need like a service visit.

 

[Redline]

Yes, demanding security and privacy owners is a bridge too far for uneducated people who don't understand the loss and the risks. I am very sorry you are incapable of that level of insight and understanding. The rest of my reasoning was asking real owners if they had found any alternative workarounds because I really do still prefer a Rivian looks and form factor minus those things I said.

I think you should just get a horse and buggy.

 

[freshpow]

Yes, demanding security and privacy owners is a bridge too far for uneducated people who don't understand the loss and the risks. I am very sorry you are incapable of that level of insight and understanding. The rest of my reasoning was asking real owners if they had found any alternative workarounds because I really do still prefer a Rivian looks and form factor minus those things I said.

It really is a shame that people can't simultaneously like something while calling out severe shortcomings. Like and dislike does not have to be 100% in either direction. Nobody thinks anyone is less of a man because they say, I like Rivian, but will do everything in my power to provide nudges to get bad things fixed and addressed and make no mistake, Rivian and all of the EV companies currently give zero F's about OWNER security and privacy and the government has taken no steps to force these to be handled appropriately. That is why everyone needs to be aware and push back against having their data mined and against forced relationships with the manufacturer even where there in not a documented need like a service visit.

In your own words,

go stuff your pretentious self in a closet

 

[Yota2R1T]

I think your viewpoints are off the reservation, but that doesn't make them any less valid since they’re yours to begin with and it’s your decision to make.

It’s been clear since your initial post that Rivian is not the vehicle for you, as many have clearly pointed out. Extra range and a 240v outlet aren’t going to magically appear. When others have tried to help you reason around those “limitations”, you just dig yourself in and show you’re not willing to compromise at all on your list. So yeah, just go buy something else.

On the contrary, I think he knows Rivian is the one for him, and he just needs to get over himself and pull the trigger.

2 final thoughts for me and then I'm un-watching this thread:
-Is it possible that OP is just some AI CHAT BOT that has been sent to drive circular arguments?
- If he/she/it is a real human, I distinctly hope I never encounter them in real life.

Good luck OP, I hope you find peace in this world.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

I'm actually still reading this thread with interest.

***

Robert F. Kennedy SENIOR once quoted this line from George Bernard Shaw's play "Methuselah": "You see things; and you say 'Why?' But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?"

Envisioning something better, in every way that matters, is extremely important in this world.

I empathize with @getut in this respect, although I'm a bit impatient with @getut's conflation of his own desires/requirements with the needs/desires/requirements of others.

***

There's an old saying in health care (and I think in other fields as well): "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

I'd be very happy if we could increase our Dual Max's range by 50% at a reasonable price and weight. Someday that will be one of our choices.

While we're waiting for something better, my wife and I personally find our Rivian Dual Max R1S is the best existing match to our ideal vehicle.

@getut, I wish you well in your search for the best-matching vehicle for yourself. I hope that's Rivian, but my hopes aren't the important thing. You've got this. So does everyone else in this thread.

***

Best to all!

 

[VandalSibs]

There's an old saying in health care (and I think in other fields as well): "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

It SHOULD be a saying in all of life, as perfection is impossible.

(Says the composer who spends too much time tinkering with a piece of music and has to have it ripped away from him, usually....)

 

[BaldThunder]

It SHOULD be a saying in all of life, as perfection is impossible.

(Says the composer who spends too much time tinkering with a piece of music and has to have it ripped away from him, usually....)

As a former producer of TV/radio content, I understand completely.

 

[getut]

It SHOULD be a saying in all of life, as perfection is impossible.

(Says the composer who spends too much time tinkering with a piece of music and has to have it ripped away from him, usually....)

Perfection is impossible, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas that we as public consumers should not be screaming out heads off about in the marketplace. The security and privacy aspect is the big, and unfortunately no matter who I choose as the manufacturer for my EV, I am going to encounter the same issue with zero respect for MY privacy and security (as well as your own).

Ordinary consumer owners are often denied the ability to make the same security decisions for the devices they legally own, even when those devices are not merely “consumer gadgets” but infrastructure with broader public consequences as commercial and industrial systems that perform some of the same functions and have the same risks. A home battery, smart inverter, EV charger, connected thermostat, or networked load-control device may sit in a private residence, but it can still affect grid behavior, utility coordination, household resilience, and downstream network security. The governments own guidance on residential and light-commercial smart inverters like enphase specifically notes the central role smart inverters play in these systems, and DOE has warned that distributed energy resources on the U.S. grid create cybersecurity risks that require standardization and mitigation because high deployment changes how the grid behaves. Enphase’s own materials also show these systems participate in grid-facing standards and functions, including IEEE interconnection requirements and utility-server integration, which underscores that these are not trivial household appliances in any practical sense. Keep in mind I'm using enphase as yet another example of systems that only have the illusion of choice but EV's fit into this also and could cause massive damage to the grid if commanded to do things in a coordinated way. And the system design weaponizes the systems against the owner to force lock in and keep you reliant on their services, but the costs are higher than just that when you cant secure your system against the manufacturers. Again the prevalent security model EVERYWHERE is zero trust. No access unless documented. All networked equipment should be designed with that security paradigm in mind, but what we have is manufacturers running roughshod over people that dont understand the risks enough to be angry about it. By far the largest majority of breaches and leaks is insiders at so called "trusted" companies. We should not be forced to trust Rivian or any other company when it comes to a connected vehicle.

A company rolling out similar systems as users would NEVER allow these systems to have unfettered access exposed to the internet. They are either air gapped and only connected when needed or completely firewalled off. Regular consumers should have the same option with EV's and all other devices but especially anything connected to infrastructure can cause problems for everyone.

And the fact is that system in EV's like Rivian, GM, Volkswagen... basically ANY current EV is set up so that the company protects itself from YOU but you are not allowed to lock them out of the system and are not given any way to do so. This is not acceptable and it is a massive risk to all of us. EVERYONE should be angry about that.

Trust is never a security solution. Manufacturers telling us to trust them to do the right things with our data and security is eventually going to get all of us severely burned. Cloud connected systems should always be an opt in feature, not a requirement for operation.

 

[Dave Cundiff]

(Says the composer who spends too much time tinkering with a piece of music and has to have it ripped away from him, usually....)

That motivated me to check your music web site. Wow! Thanks!

 

[TTedP]

And the fact is that system in EV's like Rivian, GM, Volkswagen... basically ANY current EV is set up so that the company protects itself from YOU but you are not allowed to lock them out of the system and are not given any way to do so. This is not acceptable and it is a massive risk to all of us. EVERYONE should be angry about that.

Trust is never a security solution. Manufacturers telling us to trust them to do the right things with our data and security is eventually going to get all of us severely burned. Cloud connected systems should always be an opt in feature, not a requirement for operation.

Given all your hang ups and that you already got yourself through it enough to buy one GM EV, go buy the Silverado.

It's the one with better range (seems like thats the highest requirement anyhow) and you'll only be arguing with yourself on the security part.

 

[mkhuffman]

Perfection is impossible, but that doesn't mean there aren't areas that we as public consumers should not be screaming out heads off about in the marketplace. The security and privacy aspect is the big, and unfortunately no matter who I choose as the manufacturer for my EV, I am going to encounter the same issue with zero respect for MY privacy and security (as well as your own).

Ordinary consumer owners are often denied the ability to make the same security decisions for the devices they legally own, even when those devices are not merely “consumer gadgets” but infrastructure with broader public consequences as commercial and industrial systems that perform some of the same functions and have the same risks. A home battery, smart inverter, EV charger, connected thermostat, or networked load-control device may sit in a private residence, but it can still affect grid behavior, utility coordination, household resilience, and downstream network security. The governments own guidance on residential and light-commercial smart inverters like enphase specifically notes the central role smart inverters play in these systems, and DOE has warned that distributed energy resources on the U.S. grid create cybersecurity risks that require standardization and mitigation because high deployment changes how the grid behaves. Enphase’s own materials also show these systems participate in grid-facing standards and functions, including IEEE interconnection requirements and utility-server integration, which underscores that these are not trivial household appliances in any practical sense. Keep in mind I'm using enphase as yet another example of systems that only have the illusion of choice but EV's fit into this also and could cause massive damage to the grid if commanded to do things in a coordinated way. And the system design weaponizes the systems against the owner to force lock in and keep you reliant on their services, but the costs are higher than just that when you cant secure your system against the manufacturers. Again the prevalent security model EVERYWHERE is zero trust. No access unless documented. All networked equipment should be designed with that security paradigm in mind, but what we have is manufacturers running roughshod over people that dont understand the risks enough to be angry about it. By far the largest majority of breaches and leaks is insiders at so called "trusted" companies. We should not be forced to trust Rivian or any other company when it comes to a connected vehicle.

A company rolling out similar systems as users would NEVER allow these systems to have unfettered access exposed to the internet. They are either air gapped and only connected when needed or completely firewalled off. Regular consumers should have the same option with EV's and all other devices but especially anything connected to infrastructure can cause problems for everyone.

And the fact is that system in EV's like Rivian, GM, Volkswagen... basically ANY current EV is set up so that the company protects itself from YOU but you are not allowed to lock them out of the system and are not given any way to do so. This is not acceptable and it is a massive risk to all of us. EVERYONE should be angry about that.

Trust is never a security solution. Manufacturers telling us to trust them to do the right things with our data and security is eventually going to get all of us severely burned. Cloud connected systems should always be an opt in feature, not a requirement for operation.

So I should mark Enphase off my list as an option when I add solar and battery storage in a year or two?

I have no desire to use my personal equipment to support the grid, unless I am compensated at a profit. Currently the compensation is unacceptable and not worth the depreciation it causes on the personal equipment it uses.

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