"It's a rare consumer product [R2] that approaches perfection" -- Jason Cammisa

[renderpaz]

I dunno guys, has he come to this forum? Does he know it doesn't have Apple CarPlay™?

Edit: Actually watched it and lol

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[CrazyOne]

Meh, he loved CT, then tried to backtrack. It's ok to like it, have some consistency. Don't flip flop.

 

[Gen(R3)Xer]

I find it so hard to watch shit like this... lasted about 30 seconds before turning it off.

I agree. I had it on in the background. There was some interesting information in there, but it was encased in immature debased behavior. I feel like they could have brought up concerns and shared their enthusiasm for vehicles without all of the fake shitting on everything and calling people out nonsense. How many times can Jason say “fuck” or “I’m torturing you” before everyone tunes out? It was very cringe.

 

[Engi_Nerd]

Meh, he loved CT, then tried to backtrack. It's ok to like it, have some consistency. Don't flip flop.

Agree. I have no interest in consuming content from someone who's not willing to share and commit to unpopular opinions. His video on Model 3P vs M3 was great and showed how absurd the pricing has become on BMW enthusiast products.

On the R2 front, I can only speak for myself when I say that I have zero interest in my mom-mobile grocery getter having "ultimate steering feel, progressive break away when drifting, and off-throttle tuck-in similar to a vintage Porsche". That stuff sounds incredibly pretentious when talking about a five thousand pound BEV SUV. What I want in a Model Y competitor is space, drivetrain and suspension refinement, hardware and software reliability, seat comfort, and solid ADAS. I am also skeptical that R2, again without lockers, will do anything off road that a Model Y wouldn't with a cheap lift kit and different tires.

 

[EricT]

“ …perfection…”
But he won’t buy it because it doesn’t have Apple CarPlay…Because he missed a text stream… and then complains about somebody on their phone almost running him off the road…

Just buy the “perfect “car, and pull off the road for two minutes to answer your texts. Sounds incredibly petty to me.

 

[MountainBikeDude]

No. But it might be for some or seeing it work.

My wife eye rolled me when I put it on, but loved it immediately when he made the porn stache comment about Max.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

“ …perfection…”
But he won’t buy it because it doesn’t have Apple CarPlay…Because he missed a text stream… and then complains about somebody on their phone almost running him off the road…

Just buy the “perfect “car, and pull off the road for two minutes to answer your texts. Sounds incredibly petty to me.

He said the car was "perfect" for its intended market, but he had "stupid little" criticisms specific to him.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Refusing to consider buying any vehicle due to a lack of Carplay/AA is, frankly, a sad reminder of how pathetically absorbed many people are with their phones

 

[Mos Eisley]

“ …perfection…”
But he won’t buy it because it doesn’t have Apple CarPlay…Because he missed a text stream… and then complains about somebody on their phone almost running him off the road…

Just buy the “perfect “car, and pull off the road for two minutes to answer your texts. Sounds incredibly petty to me.

I just finished the ‘cast. I think you are misinterpreting pretty much all he said. Additionally, he was busting their balls up front just to have fun. He’s an enormous Rivian fan and says so. This ‘cast is full of technical and deep discussion that enthusiasts like many in this forum will appreciate. Example, the discussion on the range impact of the 20” AT’s.

 

[rogunenode]

Agree. I have no interest in consuming content from someone who's not willing to share and commit to unpopular opinions. His video on Model 3P vs M3 was great and showed how absurd the pricing has become on BMW enthusiast products.

On the R2 front, I can only speak for myself when I say that I have zero interest in my mom-mobile grocery getter having "ultimate steering feel, progressive break away when drifting, and off-throttle tuck-in similar to a vintage Porsche". That stuff sounds incredibly pretentious when talking about a five thousand pound BEV SUV. What I want in a Model Y competitor is space, drivetrain and suspension refinement, hardware and software reliability, seat comfort, and reliable ADAS. I am also skeptical that R2, again without lockers, will do anything off road that a Model Y wouldn't with a cheap lift kit and different tires.

I had a lifted model Y. With the lift and an AT tire, it still wasn't up to the OEM clearance of the R2. More importantly, it ruined the ride, and my control arms were gone not long after getting the lift, which, of course, weren't covered under warranty.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

My wife eye rolled me when I put it on, but loved it immediately when he made the porn stache comment about Max.

Yes, it was a loose and entertaining chat… not a stiff suit and tie conference room press interview. Some in this thread seem to have trouble “reading the room”.

Cammisa repeated multiple times that he was stretching nit picks in order to not lob softballs. Imagine how boring that would have been for hour and half. It would have just been a copy of any Out of Spec video. The result is a candid and genuine chat that provides insight not shared elsewhere. Example, for me, the actual reason for why gen1 R1S suspension was not ideal (spring rate at max limit, when more was needed). If the mood had been formal, it would have just been the same corporate talking points we’ve already seen/heard thousands of times elsewhere.

As for Cammisa’s points on CarPlay (and PAAK), it’s no different from the staunch critics on this forum… which are not my views. But I get that he isn’t an owner and doesn’t have the experience of living with a Rivian and its software full-time. As a journalist who reviews cars and switch cars often, it’s understandable for him to want some familiarity from car to car and is not 100% aware of what the latest software includes. And he repeatedly made clear his bias against PAAK is based on on an early production gen1. Those of us who have been owners long enough can relate and know how improved it is now.

It’s long but packed with insights in an entertaining way, covering lots of topics including wheel/tire sizes and efficiency. How many posts are there on this very topic here and full of gibberish? If one can’t get over themselves to accept it for what it is—an entertaining opportunity to learn something—it truly is “your loss”.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Yes, it was a loose and entertaining chat not a stiff suit and tie conference room press interview. Some in this thread seem to have trouble “reading the room”. Cammisa repeated multiple times that he was stretching nit picks in order to not lob softballs. Imagine how boring that would have been for hour and half. It would have just been a copy of any Out of Spec video. The result is a candid and genuine chat that provides insight not shared elsewhere. Example, for me, the actual reason for why gen1 R1S suspension was not ideal (spring rate at max limit, when more was needed). If the mood had been formal, it would have just been the same corporate talking points we’ve already seen/heard thousands of times elsewhere. As for Cammisa’s points and CarPlay (and PAAK), it’s no different from the staunch critics on this forum… which are not my views. But I get that he isn’t an owner and doesn’t have the experience of living with a Rivian and its software full-time. As a journalist who reviews cars and switch cars often, it’s understandable for him to want some familiarity from car to car and is not 100% aware of what the latest software includes. And he repeatedly made clear his bias against PAAK is based on on an early production gen1. Those of us who have been owners long enough can relate and know how improved it is now.

DING DING DING!!!!!

It was a well-rounded discussion, which actually put the Rivian guys on the defensive a little. You could see them squirming a bit, which I loved. And I also like how Max threw it right back at Jason, telling him that his issues were "user error"

 

[NaeemTHM]

I just finished the ‘cast. I think you are misinterpreting pretty much all he said.

Yeah agreed. I thought he brought up a *great* point that went well beyond just wanting CarPlay to message people. He's completely right that Rivian is tied to Google Maps and their current suite of apps. Your phone will always have the latest and greatest music, entertainment, and mapping apps that you prefer.

I'm most certainly not in the "CarPlay or NOTHING" camp but I can totally understand the folks that prefer using Android Auto/CarPlay verses built in infotainment systems.

 

[macb00kemdanno]

Yeah agreed. I thought he brought up a *great* point that went well beyond just wanting CarPlay to message people. He's completely right that Rivian is tied to Google Maps and their current suite of apps. Your phone will always have the latest and greatest music, entertainment, and mapping apps that you prefer.

I'm most certainly not in the "CarPlay or NOTHING" camp, but I can totally understand the folks that prefer using Android Auto/CarPlay versus built-in infotainment systems.

Yeah, I totally see Jason's point as well. I don't really give a crap about CarPlay or Android Auto, but his point still stands. Rivian (and Tesla, for that matter) has to maintain a team of software guys to support third-party apps for which they don't control the underlying tech. People want Apple Music, Spotify, whatever. Rivian has to keep those apps updated, keep up with API changes, and fix any bugs they might introduce, compounded by any bugs already in the existing framework.

Then you have the added pressure of always answering to bitching from people who always want more: "I want podcasts, I want Pandora, I want YouTube Music (my specific bitch), I want Amazon Music, I want MLB, give me Waze, I want OpenTable, I want bla bla bla."

Those are wasted resources that could be used to maintain their own software stack and to fix bugs/add features specific to Rivians. With CP/AA, the onus is not on Rivian to support all of this junk; it's on the app developers.

 

[UnsungZero_OldTimeAdMan]

One more thing...

The title for the podcast series is "Carmudgeon". It's a series by and for car enthusiasts who love cars and talk about the idiosyncrasies all cars have (from small to large, from endearing to hateful) and why we enthusiasts love them. And that is the context behind all the banter and ball busting in this episode.

For anyone who just want an appliance to take them from A to B and don't care about handling dynamics or slip angles... TBH, you are better off buying an appliance from GM, Nissan, Toyota, Honda or Subaru. RJ and his teams are car enthusiasts who understand the joy of driving (and what makes a great driving car). Their passion and their labor to ensure great driving experiences would be completely lost on you and you'd be paying for way more than you need.

For those who are enthusiasts, but don't know who Cammisa is... Without the advanced age and international following, he is about as close to American version of Jeremy Clarkson as we get (but with way more mechanical knowledge). The man lives and breathes cars and have sampled lots of cars at all price ranges. When he says the R2 is close to perfection, it's not a light comment.

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