If you have a Tesla-branded CCS adapter, be sure to watch this video before using it with your R2

[dunphyjp]

Thank you for the very detailed and thought out response, I should have amended my statement that I am new to EV's and know ZERO about electricity so this is all very helpful and new to me. I am pretty eager to learn about the ins and outs of EV charging and just the overall mindset change vs an ICE vehicle.

Happy to help! always exciting to have anyone thinking or recently added to the EV community! EVs definitely require a bit of a mindset shift compared to ICE vehicles. One thing I tell people is that instead of thinking about “filling the tank,” it’s often better to think about adding the energy you need for your next drive. 95% of EV owners simply plug in at home overnight and start each morning with the range they want, so public fast charging becomes something you mainly use on road trips or in dire situations like power outage for extended periods,

Charging also isn’t just about the peak kW number. Battery temperature, state of charge, and the charger itself all influence charging speed. That’s why you’ll often hear experienced EV owners say the charging curve is just as important as the advertised peak.

Feel free to ask any questions! everyone starts somewhere, and the EV community is generally happy to help. Or DM if you want/need to!

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[JeffnReno]

I only charge on road trips and use the trip planner, so I can’t foresee a time where I’ll need to stop at a CCS station to charge. I don’t seek out Tesla stations on purpose, they’re just everywhere. If the trip planner says IONNA is a perfect stop, then so be it. The point is native NACS is ubiquitous so why would I need to stop at a CCS station or confusingly worse, seek out a CCS station?

I only bought a NACS to CCS adapter after I discovered that R2 will only be able to use Tesla Supercharger V3 and above. Been driving Teslas since 2018 and have never needed an adapter when traveling and like you, I rarely if ever need to DCFC unless traveling away from home. When I found out the R2 charging issue with V3+, I checked our usual charging stops on our annual trip south and found that our first stop to DCFC is a V2. That prompted me to search for alternate routes and charging locations. I found a few comments about Rivian owners being routed to RAN sites but when arriving found they only had CCS so had to use an adapter anyway. I decided to just get one to have and tested it using our Y at a IONNA station just to make sure it works before the return window had passed. If we get an R2, I'll be prepared and if we don't, it won't hurt having it in the Y just in case but don't think that will ever happen but who knows.

 

[RickRivian]

I only bought a NACS to CCS adapter after I discovered that R2 will only be able to use Tesla Supercharger V3 and above. Been driving Teslas since 2018 and have never needed an adapter when traveling and like you, I rarely if ever need to DCFC unless traveling away from home. When I found out the R2 charging issue with V3+, I checked our usual charging stops on our annual trip south and found that our first stop to DCFC is a V2. That prompted me to search for alternate routes and charging locations. I found a few comments about Rivian owners being routed to RAN sites but when arriving found they only had CCS so had to use an adapter anyway. I decided to just get one to have and tested it using our Y at a IONNA station just to make sure it works before the return window had passed. If we get an R2, I'll be prepared and if we don't, it won't hurt having it in the Y just in case but don't think that will ever happen but who knows.

Just to clarify, this isn't a Rivian issue. No non-Tesla can use the old Tesla chargers. That's why in the various apps you either put in your vehicle and adapter (if needed), or you select "Hide Tesla Only" or similar. There is zero need to do anything else, the apps do it for you. Some people insist on looking at every possible Tesla Supercharger location, which is just a waste of time.

The A2Z adapter to use a CCS charger is called Thunderstorm. As noted it is rated for 1000v, 500A, and is UL 2252 certified. https://a2zev.com/products/ccs1-nacs-thunderstorm?ref=RIVIANEVS

The A2Z adapter to use a J1772 charger is called Atom. It is also UL 2252 certified. https://a2zev.com/products/j1772-nacs?_pos=1&_psq=atom&_ss=e&_v=1.0&ref=RIVIANEVS

The discount code "RIVIANEVS" gets you 10% off.

Hope that helps.

 

[dunphyjp]

Just to clarify, this isn't a Rivian issue. No non-Tesla can use the old Tesla chargers. That's why in the various apps you either put in your vehicle and adapter (if needed), or you select "Hide Tesla Only" or similar. There is zero need to do anything else, the apps do it for you. Some people insist on looking at every possible Tesla Supercharger location, which is just a waste of time.

The A2Z adapter to use a CCS charger is called Thunderstorm. As noted it is rated for 1000v, 500A, and is UL 2252 certified. https://a2zev.com/products/ccs1-nacs-thunderstorm?ref=RIVIANEVS

The A2Z adapter to use a J1772 charger is called Atom. It is also UL 2252 certified. https://a2zev.com/products/j1772-nacs?_pos=1&_psq=atom&_ss=e&_v=1.0&ref=RIVIANEVS

The discount code "RIVIANEVS" gets you 10% off.

Hope that helps.

I would only clarify one thing for anyone who is newer to non-Teslas using Tesla superchargers…. No non-Tesla EV can use Tesla V1 or V2 Superchargers because they use Tesla’s original proprietary DC communication protocol instead of the CCS (DIN 70121 / ISO 15118) communication protocol used by other automakers. Tesla V3 and V4 Superchargers support CCS communication, allowing compatible non-Tesla EVs to charge (assuming the site is enabled and the vehicle has access).

 

[RickRivian]

I would only clarify one thing for anyone who is newer to non-Teslas using Tesla superchargers…. No non-Tesla EV can use Tesla V1 or V2 Superchargers because they use Tesla’s original proprietary DC communication protocol instead of the CCS (DIN 70121 / ISO 15118) communication protocol used by other automakers. Tesla V3 and V4 Superchargers support CCS communication, allowing compatible non-Tesla EVs to charge (assuming the site is enabled and the vehicle has access).

While correct, people don't need to understand this to charge. Nor do they need to be able to tell the appearance difference between an older and a new Tesla charger.

Plugshare has Hide Tesla Only and Hide Rivian Only (for non-Rivian vehicles).
ABRP has you enter your vehicle and adapters that you own, and then it hides irrelevant locations.
Tesla app has you enter your vehicle and adapter.
Tesla website has 2 checkboxes - NACS Partner (CCS vehicle with adapter or NACS non-Tesla) and Other EV (means it's open to non-Teslas of any type,and provides an adapter "Magic Dock" if needed.)

In each app or website, doing this means you don't waste your time looking at non-compatible locations.

 

[dunphyjp]

While correct, people don't need to understand this to charge. Nor do they need to be able to tell the appearance difference between an older and a new Tesla charger.

Plugshare has Hide Tesla Only and Hide Rivian Only (for non-Rivian vehicles).
ABRP has you enter your vehicle and adapters that you own, and then it hides irrelevant locations.
Tesla app has you enter your vehicle and adapter.
Tesla website has 2 checkboxes - NACS Partner (CCS vehicle with adapter or NACS non-Tesla) and Other EV (means it's open to non-Teslas of any type,and provides an adapter "Magic Dock" if needed.)

In each app or website, doing this means you don't waste your time looking at non-compatible locations.

Agreed, the apps in car and 3rd part make it easy, and most drivers won’t ever have to think about it. I was only clarifying the technical reason, since some people assume an adapter is all that’s needed to use a V2 Supercharger.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I only bought a NACS to CCS adapter after I discovered that R2 will only be able to use Tesla Supercharger V3 and above. Been driving Teslas since 2018 and have never needed an adapter when traveling and like you, I rarely if ever need to DCFC unless traveling away from home. When I found out the R2 charging issue with V3+, I checked our usual charging stops on our annual trip south and found that our first stop to DCFC is a V2. That prompted me to search for alternate routes and charging locations. I found a few comments about Rivian owners being routed to RAN sites but when arriving found they only had CCS so had to use an adapter anyway. I decided to just get one to have and tested it using our Y at a IONNA station just to make sure it works before the return window had passed. If we get an R2, I'll be prepared and if we don't, it won't hurt having it in the Y just in case but don't think that will ever happen but who knows.

Agreed and that’s why I have a CCS adapter bc you never know.

 

[mrose]

Just use native NACS. Plenty of options available. Adapters should die.

Not an option for most. We have rivians and Tesla’s, need adapters in real world

 

[Jeremy3292]

Not an option for most. We have rivians and Tesla’s, need adapters in real world

“Not an option for most”

What does this mean? There’s more NACS stalls in the USA than CCS. Not hard to find or use anywhere.

 

[JeffnReno]

Just to clarify, this isn't a Rivian issue. No non-Tesla can use the old Tesla chargers. That's why in the various apps you either put in your vehicle and adapter (if needed), or you select "Hide Tesla Only" or similar. There is zero need to do anything else, the apps do it for you. Some people insist on looking at every possible Tesla Supercharger location, which is just a waste of time.

The A2Z adapter to use a CCS charger is called Thunderstorm. As noted it is rated for 1000v, 500A, and is UL 2252 certified. https://a2zev.com/products/ccs1-nacs-thunderstorm?ref=RIVIANEVS

The A2Z adapter to use a J1772 charger is called Atom. It is also UL 2252 certified. https://a2zev.com/products/j1772-nacs?_pos=1&_psq=atom&_ss=e&_v=1.0&ref=RIVIANEVS

The discount code "RIVIANEVS" gets you 10% off.

Hope that helps.

I appreciate the clarification but, non-Tesla NACS equipped cars that are driving past a Tesla Supercharger and wondering why the car didn't route them to that one may find it confusing. They may also not be aware if they recently went from a Tesla to a non-Tesla NACS vehicle without checking ahead of starting out, that the Supercharger they normally stop at may not be available for them because of the reasons stated previously. It is definitely not a Rivian problem and it won't be a problem for owners that bother to research such issues before buying a vehicle equipped with NACS thinking that all NACS are there for them. I know that if I hadn't checked on the one stop that we normally make, ahead of time and just drove 2 hours to find out I couldn't charge there, it would have been more than a slight issue for us. Not everyone that drives EVs automatically use ABRP or even the in car NAV to plan their stops. Especially so if they are used to going a certain route that works better for them over several months or even years.

 

[sparked]

Could charging stations current limit R2 on CCS1 cables? or is the charging protocol agnostic of the car it's charging? Just curious if there is a technical solution for these edge cases.

 

[dunphyjp]

Could charging stations current limit R2 on CCS1 cables? or is the charging protocol agnostic of the car it's charging? Just curious if there is a technical solution for these edge cases.

From my understanding, yesthe charging station can absolutely be part of the limiting factor. During the charging handshake, the vehicle, charger, cable, and any adapter all communicate their capabilities. The charging session is then limited by whichever component has the lowest safe limit.

So if a charger’s CCS cable is rated for less current than the R2 could theoretically accept, the charger simply won’t offer more than that. The R2 will charge at the highest rate that all of the hardware agrees is safe.

That’s also why you can see different charging speeds on different chargers, even if they’re both advertised as the same peak kW. Cable cooling, current limits, battery temperature, state of charge, and the charger’s own power-sharing all come into play.

as for the solution to that, it’s important to know one of the reasons EV charging relies on that digital handshake is because there’s so many different manufacturers.
That’s also one of the interesting differences between Tesla’s original Supercharger network and CCS. Tesla originally controlled the vehicle, connector, charger, and communication protocol, so everything was designed as one ecosystem. CCS, on the other hand, is an open standard used by many different automakers and charging companies. That openness is a huge advantage for interoperability, but it also means the communication standards have to account for many different vehicles, batteries, chargers, and cable designs.

So in situations like this, the handshake IS essentially the technical solution. Rather than assuming every charger and every vehicle are identical, the system negotiates a charging rate that all of the hardware can safely support.

Hopefully that helps! I can go into the technical protocols of CCS and Tesla charging if you want, but I’m pretty sure that’s boring too most people.

 

[emroch]

From my understanding, yesthe charging station can absolutely be part of the limiting factor. During the charging handshake, the vehicle, charger, cable, and any adapter all communicate their capabilities. The charging session is then limited by whichever component has the lowest safe limit.

So if a charger’s CCS cable is rated for less current than the R2 could theoretically accept, the charger simply won’t offer more than that. The R2 will charge at the highest rate that all of the hardware agrees is safe.

That’s also why you can see different charging speeds on different chargers, even if they’re both advertised as the same peak kW. Cable cooling, current limits, battery temperature, state of charge, and the charger’s own power-sharing all come into play.

as for the solution to that, it’s important to know one of the reasons EV charging relies on that digital handshake is because there’s so many different manufacturers.
That’s also one of the interesting differences between Tesla’s original Supercharger network and CCS. Tesla originally controlled the vehicle, connector, charger, and communication protocol, so everything was designed as one ecosystem. CCS, on the other hand, is an open standard used by many different automakers and charging companies. That openness is a huge advantage for interoperability, but it also means the communication standards have to account for many different vehicles, batteries, chargers, and cable designs.

So in situations like this, the handshake IS essentially the technical solution. Rather than assuming every charger and every vehicle are identical, the system negotiates a charging rate that all of the hardware can safely support.

Hopefully that helps! I can go into the technical protocols of CCS and Tesla charging if you want, but I’m pretty sure that’s boring too most people.

You're mostly correct, except that adapters are passive devices and do not participate in the handshake. If an adapter creates excessive heat, the cable or car might detect it and throttle, but not necessarily. An adapter rated too low also will not be able to tell the car or charger what its max rating is so they'll still use whatever the car and charger themselves agree on.

Another possible solution to having less capable adapters Is for the chargers to detect the make and model of the car and check a database of what kind of port it has. If it is charging using a different cable, there must be an adapter involved and it could choose to cap itself at the presumed adapter rating (eg 500A). The problem with this is that if adapters come out rated for 600+A then the chargers wouldn't know and would still throttle.

 

[dunphyjp]

You're mostly correct, except that adapters are passive devices and do not participate in the handshake. If an adapter creates excessive heat, the cable or car might detect it and throttle, but not necessarily. An adapter rated too low also will not be able to tell the car or charger what its max rating is so they'll still use whatever the car and charger themselves agree on.

Another possible solution to having less capable adapters Is for the chargers to detect the make and model of the car and check a database of what kind of port it has. If it is charging using a different cable, there must be an adapter involved and it could choose to cap itself at the presumed adapter rating (eg 500A). The problem with this is that if adapters come out rated for 600+A then the chargers wouldn't know and would still throttle.

I think you’re arguing against a point I never made. I never said the adapter independently negotiates the charging session. I said it’s part of the overall charging process.

The vehicle and charger absolutely exchange information about battery state, voltage, current limits, and other parameters during the handshake. Modern DC fast-charging adapters can also influence the session through things like thermal monitoring and the additional resistance they introduce. If an adapter overheats or exceeds its safe operating conditions, charging can be reduced accordingly.

My point wasn’t that the adapter is another negotiation endpoint… it was that it’s another component whose characteristics can affect the charging session as a whole.

 

[emroch]

I think you’re arguing against a point I never made. I never said the adapter independently negotiates the charging session. I said it’s part of the overall charging process.

The vehicle and charger absolutely exchange information about battery state, voltage, current limits, and other parameters during the handshake. Modern DC fast-charging adapters can also influence the session through things like thermal monitoring and the additional resistance they introduce. If an adapter overheats or exceeds its safe operating conditions, charging can be reduced accordingly.

My point wasn’t that the adapter is another negotiation endpoint… it was that it’s another component whose characteristics can affect the charging session as a whole.

I stand corrected. I was under the impression that the adapters were simple passthrough devices that literally just connected the appropriate pins on each side. But looks like you are correct that some adapters have circuitry in them to detect overheating and can interrupt the communication to stop charging. So they still aren't part of the communication protocol but can affect the charging if they detect something is wrong.

But my initial point is that this is a reactive process. The EVSE and vehicle do not initially know there is an adapter in the path other than perhaps a change in resistance on the wires. The adapter does not affect the negotiated charging rate, so having a 600A capable charger and a 500A adapter is likely to cause problems (hopefully the overheating protection works and prevents damage).

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