Other EVs in 2023

[LeoH]

I must have a 7 seat SUV with overall length of 200 or less ( Rivian sits at 201 ) and the 3rd row must be useable by humans and not just elves.
Those specs will limit me to BEVs that are dedicated from the ground up and not based on ICE models. I also have car maker preferences.
As you can see my preferences are really limited to R1S and nothing else since my delivery windows is Oct-Dec 2022. If something came up that's worth it, I have no issue switching.

For my wife, she ha a 2019 Sienna, if I switch at some point, it would be the new Sienna.

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[Max]

Interesting, not many people even mentioned Cybertruck. I wonder if CT reveals a quad with 500 mile range for $70K (I know I am dreaming, but if it does) later this year, what would existing CT reservation holders who are 23 for Rivian would do. I still may go for Rivian mostly because of smaller size of R1S and two year time difference for me due to my place in line for CT beats the 200 mile extra range, payload and I just like the vibe of the Rivian brand more but if Rivian slips with timing and Tesla ramps up fast, I may change my tune.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

Interesting, not many people even mentioned Cybertruck. I wonder if CT reveals a quad with 500 mile range for $70K (I know I am dreaming, but if it does)

Lol this isn't a fantasy forum, any LARPing by forum members is coincidental.

 

[Max]

Lol this isn't a fantasy forum, any LARPing by forum members is coincidental.

LARP?

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

LARP?

 

[Max]

I saw this in a park once and I didn’t know what the heck I was looking at but I couldn’t stop looking.

 

[Friscorays]

Bummer about March 1, 2022.

 

[Max]

Anyone considering Cadillac Lyriq, Nissan Ariya, toyota bz4x, Lexus RZ450e, Kia EV6, GV60, BMW IX, porsche macan ev, audi q6 e tron, ……..?

 

[Taycanfrank]

I will be directly cross-shopping with the EV Macan and Polestar 3, assuming Polestar can get a better grasp on battery tech.

While I think the R1T/S are just about alone in a very specific niche, I also believe many (maybe most?) buyers won't actually use the full off-roading capability or 3rd row which opens up a ton of competition. I'd be very curious to know how many buyers will actually use the advanced offroading.

I would but I'd also be willing to give up some offroading if the Macan or Polestar 3 are vastly superior in the other 97% of my driving.

 

[Charles]

I’m in the 1st half of 23 R1S group. My current lease is up in October 22. Does not make sense to buy out at the end. Leaning toward a Tesla Model Y or used 4Runner or similar. Easy to sell after I get the R1S or keep.

 

[DuckTruck]

The fully loaded launch edition triple motor Hummer EV with 37" all terrain tires gets a more Prius like ~54 MPGe.

Mid 2022 Mitsubishi will launch the tweener compact-midsize CUV barely 3rd row Outlander PHEV. Should have ~46 EPA all electric miles range (20 kWh pack) and ~325 combined horsepower for a decent 0-60. Not Tesla-Rivian 0-60 but decent for a car with an ICE in it.

It was a ride in a 2014(?) Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV that moved me toward a PHEV for something different in my personal transportation. It seemed to do so many things well, but was a bit sedate. It looks to have grown up quite a bit. With an electric range of 45+ miles per charge, it will likely handle most all of the daily driving around town for many folks.

At the very least, the first 45 miles of every day are free of any tailpipe emissions. Not a bad thing in any city and a nice thing to do for Mother Earth.

 

[Autolycus]

Interesting, not many people even mentioned Cybertruck. I wonder if CT reveals a quad with 500 mile range for $70K (I know I am dreaming, but if it does) later this year, what would existing CT reservation holders who are 23 for Rivian would do.

The Model Y with 318 miles of range and just 2 motors currently costs ~$59k. I will be shocked if any real CT model is ever cheaper than that. If a quad motor or 500-mile version does ever see actual production, it’ll end up being $80k+ minimum.

I’m still not actually convinced the CT will ever be produced in large volumes. I think it’s a fantasy concept car.

 

[kurtlikevonnegut]

The Model Y with 318 miles of range and just 2 motors currently costs ~$59k. I will be shocked if any real CT model is ever cheaper than that. If a quad motor or 500-mile version does ever see actual production, it’ll end up being $80k+ minimum.

I’m still not actually convinced the CT will ever be produced in large volumes. I think it’s a fantasy concept car.

If a quad motor 500mi range CT ever happens I fully expect it to start north of 100k just due to material costs. That would be a 200kwh battery minimum, probably more like 250kwh. Assuming that the CT could match the efficiency of the R1T on 21" tires (doubtful based on weight alone but also aero and rolling resistance) it would require a 240kwh pack to get 500 miles range. Even at the golden $100/kwh mark that's a $25k battery pack just to start. No way they sell that for $70k or less.

 

[87Ducks]

In 2023?

Nada really for me (looking for a pickup to replace the pickup we have AND replace the Tesla X as the family cruiser).

Ford wise: The F150 Lightening, I'm guessing will be a 2023 item for most folks, but I'm after the longer range (dos boot will take a chunk of the range when towing up and down the I-5, or across the I-90/HWY-2 corridors). Plus, I really like the size of the R1T for day to day driving (an issue I'd have with the F150, since I have it now with my Ram 1500).

An EV Ranger would be tasty though, but, no mention of such a beast. A hybrid Maverick might be in the future for my son (but given that dealers are marking them up by almost 2x right now... meh).

GM wise: 2023 (most like 2024 in reality) for the EV versions of the Silverado or Sierra. And to be honest, I'm not particularly enamored with their EV efforts so far. They either seem to burst into flames, or have the design esthetic of a 6 year old boy given a box of crayons and told to draw a "truck", plus an efficiency rating that is heinous (43 eMPG for the Hummer... hooooly hell, it will pass anything but a charging station).

Stelantis/FCA/RAM: LOL... ya.. they have no idea what they are doing yet.

Toyota: I don't think the EV truck they did a dog and pony show of in their reveal will be ready before 2024. I like the size, but know nothing else of it.

Honda: Uhhh, as far as I know they only have one EV, and my eBike has almost as much range.

Mazda: See my Honda take.

Hyundia: An EV version of the Santa Cruz? Maybe for the boy, but I don't think it would meet my needs, and again, no mention of such a creature lurking in the shadows.

That all said, my wife has a dirt old jelly bean of a car that I literally have shoes that are bigger than it.

I ordered her a Volvo XC40 Recharge (she likes the smaller cars), but it's a bit of a race between it, and the Audi Q4 for me. I actually much prefer the Audi Q4 (even if it has no frunk... lazy engineering) to the Volvo both due to the slightly larger size, but also the cost (it costs a fair bit less versus the Volvo).

The EV6 looks damn nice, but it's too big for what the wife wants.

VW has done some horrible user design in their cars, so they are pretty much out of the running (that $#@!ing radio/HVAC control is an exercise in madness, and who the hell thought the window control layout they put in place was a good idea... OMG). Maybe if they got their stuff together they would be back in the running for the wife's car.

Good summary. I am sticking with RIT Adventure Max in 2023 unless Toyota or Honda have secretly been developing and start producing EV Tacoma's and Ridgelines before then. (Don't really want a full size pickup). Those are probably the only two manufactures I would trust to get it right the first time.
Also have a reservation for a R1S. For that I would also consider Volvo .

 

[Max]

If a quad motor 500mi range CT ever happens I fully expect it to start north of 100k just due to material costs. That would be a 200kwh battery minimum, probably more like 250kwh. Assuming that the CT could match the efficiency of the R1T on 21" tires (doubtful based on weight alone but also aero and rolling resistance) it would require a 240kwh pack to get 500 miles range. Even at the golden $100/kwh mark that's a $25k battery pack just to start. No way they sell that for $70k or less.

I do expect pricing to be initially high but not because of cost to Tesla. But because Tesla has shown it will price their products as high as they can getaway with and at least initially they will be able to get away with a lot for a 500 mile truck.

One of the reasons CT won’t be mass produced until 4680 in Texas is hammered out is that unless battery cost to Tesla is low enough, CT can not be competitive. Once those batteries are rolling, with no paint job and casting, if they have no problem with source materials, they will spit out CTs faster than any other manufacturers. Even at $25K a pack, they can be profitable at $70K but I seriously doubt they will price it that way unless they plan to wipe out the competition. The likely scenario is their dual motor with 300 mile range will be priced to compete.

I think Tesla will be better than Rivian in keeping manufacturing cost down. Their trucks may be more disposable and have higher insurance cost but they don’t care what happens to you after warranty so they can design for minimum cost to produce.

As of now CT seem to be going through identity crisis and get freaked out every time competition comes up with a new cool feature but to be honest if they do start delivering the dual motor at the original $50K advertised price, that will give me a serious pause. However the most likely scenario is they will start with a $90K quad when I am already driving my R1S.

All that said, my post did not claim 500 mile $70K will happen. I just wanted to know what people would IF it happen.

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