Rivian R1T electric truck 'way underpriced,' but room to improve (says Sandy Munro)

[Count Orlok]

Rivian R1T electric truck 'way underpriced,' but room to improve


nothing really new if you've watched his videos but it is likely stock watchers are only going to read summaries like this.

Sponsored

 

[E.S.]

Yep! I keep saying this. Despite the initial hefty cost, for what you get, the R1T is a bargain.

 

[sevengroove]

But the R1T, which starts at $67,500, "should be selling for $100,000 -- it's way underpriced for what it is and what it does,"

Are they comparing the new pricing for a dual motor standard battery explore to a launch edition quad motor large battery? Or are they comparing pre-March 1 pricing to current pricing for a quad motor large pack? Either way it’s an incorrect comparison imo.

 

[SASSquatch]

This statement surprises me:

"It's designed and built quite differently from traditional full-size pickups," says Ben Lindamood, a Munro director. "The build quality still isn't as good as vehicles from more established brands, which is not dissimilar from the early Teslas" torn down in Munro's shop."

Either, Sandy has been holding back in his videos thus far, or he's going to drop a bombshell in a yet unreleased video because nothing we have read/heard from Sandy would suggest the R1T build quality is lacking compared to other manufacturers.

I wonder if they are referring to manufacturing efficiencies and not quality because thus far the reviews on quality have been universally positive.

This could be sloppy writing but we'll have to wait until Sandy's next video to hear it from the horses mouth.

 

[Dman250]

This statement surprises me:

"It's designed and built quite differently from traditional full-size pickups," says Ben Lindamood, a Munro director. "The build quality still isn't as good as vehicles from more established brands, which is not dissimilar from the early Teslas" torn down in Munro's shop."

Either, Sandy has been holding back in his videos thus far, or he's going to drop a bombshell in a yet unreleased video because nothing we have read/heard from Sandy would suggest the R1T build quality is lacking compared to other manufacturers.

I wonder if they are referring to manufacturing efficiencies and not quality because thus far the reviews on quality have been universally positive.

This could be sloppy writing but we'll have to wait until Sandy's next video to hear it from the horses mouth.

Interesting, but from what I’ve seen, Sandy loves the fit and finish, material perceived quality, panel gap management etc - but that doesn’t necessarily mean that overall “build quality” is very good. Our VW for example, despite being a bottom of the line model, has superb fit and finish inside and out, with very nice functional design features as well. But as an owner I wouldn’t say the overall build quality is as good as some Toyota’s we’ve owned. And our 2020 Ford has mediocre fit and finish but so far seems to be screwed/welded/snapped together very well.

 

[SASSquatch]

Interesting, but from what I’ve seen, Sandy loves the fit and finish, material perceived quality, panel gap management etc - but that doesn’t necessarily mean that overall “build quality” is very good. Our VW for example, despite being a bottom of the line model, has superb fit and finish inside and out, with very nice functional design features as well. But as an owner I wouldn’t say the overall build quality is as good as some Toyota’s we’ve owned. And our 2020 Ford has mediocre fit and finish but so far seems to be screwed/welded/snapped together very well.

Dman250 what this does is beg the question of what, exactly, is meant by the term "build quality?"

What we need from Sandy, and perhaps from the "journalists" writing these articles is an operational definition that serves as a reference point.

In your definition, for example, would build quality be synonymous with "assembly quality?"

I perceive "build quality" to not only include the assembly but the materials.

Thus far, I have not seen any complaints from Sandy and his team regarding the quality of materials or the assembly.

They have pointed out several places where RIVIAN could explore efficiencies to reduce cost. That to me doesn't equate to build quality unless "build efficiency" is also encompassed in build qaulity.

Thus, the need for an operational definition.

 

[Dman250]

Dman250 what this does is beg the question of what, exactly, is meant by the term "build quality?"

What we need from Sandy, and perhaps from the "journalists" writing these articles is an operational definition that serves as a reference point.

In your definition, for example, would build quality by synonymous with "assembly quality?"

I perceive build to not only include the assembly but the materials.

Thus far, I have not seen any complaints from Sandy and his team regarding the quality of materials or the assembly.

Starting with your last comment, I too haven’t heard anything bad from Munro about materials or assembly either, so that does beg the question what they meant about “build quality”. To your other comments, here are my opinions based on 35 years working for companies that designed, built, sold and serviced products, not consumer products but commercial products (including trucks) that were manufactured in the 10’s to maybe 100 thousand annual volumes. That said, they are just my opinions and we know what that means

Most “quality” is designed in. A strong, reliable, functional design using materials and components which are robust, manufacturable and cost-effective. Lots of room for compromise there. But if a journalist complains about “cheap low quality“ plastic interior trim, that’s really a design/engineering issue. A poor material was chosen, the design of snap fits or fasteners or panel fit, etc is bad, etc. Those are almost always 100% the responsibility of the engineering team. Or, with modern supply chains, the subcontractor that supplies that trim may have cut corners and not be manufacturing to spec, but that should be caught with good first article, sampling, process control etc. But the quality of the plastic from a global supplier like ChiMei, Styron etc is unlikely to be at fault. So in that sense materials are not a factor in build quantity. If a bolt is torqued to spec, and loosens up or breaks, that’s usually a design issue - a properly spec’ed bolt from a quality supplier is unlikely to fail unless the design application is wrong. Now, if bolts are loose or left out, that’s assembly/build quality. or more precisely, a poor assembly process that doesn’t prevent or catch that. If paint has ripples or orange peel, that’s also build quality. But again, the quality of the paint material from a major supplier is probably just fine. So I would not typically include materials under build quality. The design should be matched to the manufacturing process capability and all the assembly plant needs to do is follow that process.

Now I’m way oversimplifying, but TLDR is that most complaints about poor quality really point back to poor design.

 

[mgc0216]

I was driving the truck today and thought: Is this the best buy on the market right now?

Is there a car / truck / suv out there that gives you more for your $85k (what I paid for my truck out the door)?

What about at the new prices?

I don't know a lot bout $85k cars / trucks / SUVs - I do know I cross shopped the Defender, and it was comparably priced, but didn't seem as capable across the board (on road and off)

 

[MNLightning]

Dman250 what this does is beg the question of what, exactly, is meant by the term "build quality?"

Not that he is right or wrong, but they have to keep it interesting to keep the views up

It's easy to back seat drive Rivian's decisions and planning. Is it under priced? I think so. Would I own it if they would have followed through on the price increase? Slightly unlikely that I'd still own it. The biggest problem they are going to have is Ford's "perceived" ability to out produce Rivian. Currently the highest VIN # I've seen is in the low Seven Thousands and if the R1S bite's into R1T production yikes.

 

[MXA121]

Are they comparing the new pricing for a dual motor standard battery explore to a launch edition quad motor large battery? Or are they comparing pre-March 1 pricing to current pricing for a quad motor large pack? Either way it’s an incorrect comparison imo.

Assume it's worst case, Dual Motor Explore for $67,500. It's still a 4WD Air Suspended crew pickup with 600 electric horsepower, 250+range, and a premium interior. I struggle to name another 500+ horsepower truck/suv for under $70k. Would that spec be worth $100k? Maybe. Would the Launch Edition - oh hell yes!

Sponsored