Breaking: White House releases plan to build nationwide network of 500,000 EV chargers

[Ladiver]

I'll put good money on this meaning J1772 and CCS combo will be mandated for any of this pot of grants/subsidies. It will be really interesting to see how Tesla handles that. Obviously it won't matter for anybody else's plans. They'll just keep building what they were already building or maybe expand their plans, but no design or product changes needed on that front anyway.

Don’t underestimate the US Government. I bet they develop a new standard and piss away a great opportunity.

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[the long way downunder]

We don’t need a network of lightening rods. We just need it to work once and then we bring the tech back from the future and after than it is just banana peels and beer cans. No J1772 needed.

That's considered one of the logical proofs that time travel is not possible: If time travel was discovered/invented in the future, eventually with an "infinite" future, people (or something) would travel to all time periods, at least some travelers would arrive at a point in time during the last 100-200 years of modern history and become known (regardless of "laws" to not tamper with the past.) This leaves the potential for a "forward only" time travel (meaning all travel occurs only after the invention or discovery and somehow does not allow travel prior to the event of invention.)

 

[the long way downunder]

Don’t underestimate the US Government. I bet they develop a new standard and piss away a great opportunity.

Wouldn't be surprised to see the US Govt privatize multiple competing grids with no price control, letting the "free" market continue to gouge commuters and holiday road trippers. All hail for the oligarchy!

 

[Autolycus]

Don’t underestimate the US Government. I bet they develop a new standard and piss away a great opportunity.

They're not going to develop a new standard by March. That would be waaaayy more work than any government employee wants to put in. If they would do anything weird, it would be to pick the _other_ CCS combo. But that wouldn't even work since it's based on a different AC standard than exists in the US.

 

[Ladiver]

They're not going to develop a new standard by March. That would be waaaayy more work than any government employee wants to put in. If they would do anything weird, it would be to pick the _other_ CCS combo. But that wouldn't even work since it's based on a different AC standard than exists in the US.

As a government employee, I can safely say that developing a new standard is pretty easy. The hard part is getting everyone else to figure out how to make it work! ?

I propose the JJ5150 with NEMA 6-20P connection, pushing 500 kWh at 200 amps.

There’s the “standard” now it’s the industries problem to figure out!

 

[Autolycus]

As a government employee, I can safely say that developing a new standard is pretty easy. The hard part is getting everyone else to figure out how to make it work! ?

I propose the JJ5150 with NEMA 6-20P connection, pushing 500 kWh at 200 amps.

There’s the “standard” now it’s the industries problem to figure out!

Still way easier to just pull up wikipedia on J1772 or CCS and copy and paste!

-also a government employee

 

[Max]

That's considered one of the logical proofs that time travel is not possible: If time travel was discovered/invented in the future, eventually with an "infinite" future, people (or something) would travel to all time periods, at least some travelers would arrive at a point in time during the last 100-200 years of modern history and become known (regardless of "laws" to not tamper with the past.) This leaves the potential for a "forward only" time travel (meaning all travel occurs only after the invention or discover and somehow not allowing travel prior to the event of invention.)

How do you know that I am not a reporter from future trying to investigate the sense of humor of people in the past? Just kidding. The real reason I am back is to see that glorious day when the first real customer received his Rivian.

 

[R_1_T]

They're not going to develop a new standard by March. That would be waaaayy more work than any government employee wants to put in. If they would do anything weird, it would be to pick the _other_ CCS combo. But that wouldn't even work since it's based on a different AC standard than exists in the US.

As if that would prevent the DC dullards from making it the "standard".

 

[Arthur Itiz]

Tesla already has the charging infrastructure and has stated they will eventually start contracting out to other manufacturers so that they can charge the electric vehicles they manufacture. Electrify America is also building out a charging infrastructure. So why does the government need to get involved?

I can only assume there are a few politicians that stand to make a few million in stock purchases on this boondoggle, so getting involved is mandatory for them.

 

[Autolycus]

Tesla already has the charging infrastructure and has stated they will eventually start contracting out to other manufacturers so that they can charge the electric vehicles they manufacture. Electrify America is also building out a charging infrastructure. So why does the government need to get involved?

To accelerate the process so we get to the tipping point faster. As quickly as Tesla and EA and others are building out their networks, the networks will need another order of magnitude jump in the next decade. There are 17-18k total DCFC (Level 3) chargers currently installed in the US. To get to the EV adoption targets by 2030, there need to be something like 25k in California alone (that's the state's estimate). That means probably 150-200k nationwide, or a 10x jump from the current networks' installed base. That's going to take a lot of money, and yes, probably the government subsidizing it to make private money go further and faster.

 

[the long way downunder]

How do you know that I am not a reporter from future trying to investigate the sense of humor of people in the past? Just kidding. The real reason I am back is to see that glorious day when the first real customer received his Rivian.

If you were, we'd be working in the same union.

 

[Dark-Fx]

A dozen 350kW stations at every highway rest area and a half dozen stations based off the upcoming standard for semi trucks/trailer pull-through (MCS and available CCS).

 

[the long way downunder]

Tesla already has the charging infrastructure and has stated they will eventually start contracting out to other manufacturers so that they can charge the electric vehicles they manufacture. Electrify America is also building out a charging infrastructure. So why does the government need to get involved?

I can only assume there are a few politicians that stand to make a few million in stock purchases on this boondoggle, so getting involved is mandatory for them.

I'm sure there's the political theater motivation, but EA needs more than dieselgate money from VW, Mercedes, BMW, etc. They also need the land rights and access, the power grid, the infrastructure connectors (roads, intersections, signage) and cooperation from corporations with rights to influence development around their commercial locations. If (for once) the Govt does grease the wheels of industry, this could be a leap forward into a technological era, training people to work in the EV industry and solar industry. Construction on EV charge sites could include batteries (for peak clipping) and solar arrays as canopies that could also cover the parking lots of schools, hospitals, government buildings, consumer malls, factories and even along freeways … shielding vehicles from direct sunlight while absorbing the photoelectric goodness for immediate use, etc. It's all been done and requires no special conditions other than for government to let it happen. Of course luddites will say "what about when there's snow or a tornado or just not a sunny day … it will never work … " but in reality, solutions are geographically and demographically specific – Arizona versus Arkansas, Los Angeles compared to Little Rock … the electric vehicle charging networks of 2025 will not be a "one size fits all" technology. The thing we don't want is for Walmart or Amazon, Tesla or Apple to "benevolently" take ownership of large segments of the grid and own that equipment as a private entity. It will become another oil industry cartel, another health insurance racket – a system that serves the affluent and oppresses low income families (who should really be getting energy for free since the cost of gas for commuting is an unreasonably high percentage of income … and the people with the longest commutes in the worst mpg vehicles tend to have low income employment … )

 

[Arthur Itiz]

To accelerate the process so we get to the tipping point faster. As quickly as Tesla and EA and others are building out their networks, the networks will need another order of magnitude jump in the next decade. There are 17-18k total DCFC (Level 3) chargers currently installed in the US. To get to the EV adoption targets by 2030, there need to be something like 25k in California alone (that's the state's estimate). That means probably 150-200k nationwide, or a 10x jump from the current networks' installed base. That's going to take a lot of money, and yes, probably the government subsidizing it to make private money go further and faster.

I'm not against rolling out a denser charging network and agree that it needs to happen eventually. What I am skeptical of is that .gov is going to wade into an already blooming infrastructure and crush some sand castles that area already well on their way to meeting that goal just so they can get involved in such a way that a select few benefit.

We can already see this administration doesn't like Tesla so I doubt they'll contract with them to build more charging infrastructure. More likely they will take bids from private sector start-ups (something our politicians can profit from, conveniently) and go from there.

I could be surprised and they may involve Tesla somehow. But I seriously doubt it.

 

[Autolycus]

I'm not against rolling out a denser charging network and agree that it needs to happen eventually. What I am skeptical of is that .gov is going to wade into an already blooming infrastructure and crush some sand castles that area already well on their way to meeting that goal just so they can get involved in such a way that a select few benefit.

We can already see this administration doesn't like Tesla so I doubt they'll contract with them to build more charging infrastructure. More likely they will take bids from private sector start-ups (something our politicians can profit from, conveniently) and go from there.

I could be surprised and they may involve Tesla somehow. But I seriously doubt it.

I believe the program is going to be structured as grants and tax credits. It's going to be as straight forward as: 1) Do you meet the program requirements? 2) If Yes, here's your cash for that charger you just installed.

The thing that is going to hurt Tesla in all of this is that they chose to use a different charging connector than literally everyone else.

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