Brake rotors wearing quesiton

[beatle]

Eventually this may turn into a class action issue. Improper installation at the factory is a manufacturing defect not a use caused issue. If the pins are not greased and causing the wear prematurely it should be covered. Seems we are seeing a lot of poor factory setups.

It may not mean that the greasing is insufficient at the factory, but rather a vehicle that never uses its brakes may need reapplication of the grease more frequently.

I don't think I selected such a thing, I will look to see, I agree a bad choice to add braking in place of regen. However, high regen may wear out tires?

Slowing down, accelerating, and cornering wear out tires. The harder you do each of these, the faster your tires will wear. But if you're not using braking assist, you likely have to use the friction brakes manually anyway. The truck will use regen if the battery is warm enough, and if not, it'll blend in friction brakes so the experience is the same. Neither Model S I had was equipped with that feature, and when the battery was cold, I had to use the big pedal a lot more. If you need to scrub off a certain amount of speed, your tires don't care whether its the friction brakes or the motors doing the job.

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[Greg Chick]

I am going to try to find the opt out.

 

[LocoEngineer]

The design of brakes like this, they're absolutely meant to evenly wear.

The short of it is: it seems like during manufacturing, the carrier pins weren't all greased adequately.
If you're mechanically inclined and comfortable with brakes, pull the calipers, clean and re-grease the pins generously.

If you're not, find a service center or mechanic who is.

As far as whether or not you can get this covered 'under warranty,' it seems like (mostly) no. Since brakes are considered a wear-item this is a very grey area and Rivian knows that. TO date, the few other reports of asymmetrical wear has resulted in owners paying for new pads.

That said, I personally would be making strong arguments for the fact that the system isn't operating as designed if there is uneven wear. I can't promise that'll get you very far.

BUT, it's good you found this early. Hope you get it resolved quickly and effectively.

He's talking about the front brakes, not the rear. The front brakes do not have carrier pins.

 

[R1Thor]

He's talking about the front brakes, not the rear. The front brakes do not have carrier pins.

Check this thread
There are absolutely greased pins in the front assembly (photos included)
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/brake-pad-replacement-diy-for-rivian-r1.39801/

 

[LocoEngineer]

Check this thread
There are absolutely greased pins in the front assembly (photos included)
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/threads/brake-pad-replacement-diy-for-rivian-r1.39801/

Let me clarify for all the non-mechanics, you included. Don't take this as cut towards you, I'm sure you know things that I don't. What I do know are brakes, specifically Brembo style fixed(not floating) systems. You referred to "caliper pins," even stating you had to pull the caliper to do so. That's not how the front brakes on the Rivian work. Brembo style monoblock calipers do not have caliper pins. They do have brake pad retaining pins, but they should never be greased. If Rivian is greasing these pins, they are in the wrong.


Do not lube
When it comes to Brembo style brake pads, do not lube the brake retaining pins.

The above quote is straight from Brembo.

 

[mkg3]

I wished that Rivian had a rolling setting so that when coming to stop, it does not go into hold.

As for the blended braking, I never use it. I see no need for it - ever. Perfectly capable of recognizing variable deceleration rates and use the brake when needed. I have my regen set to standard for in town driving and in heavy traffic. On long(er) highway runs, regen is set to low.

 

[R1TandMe]

This is m first ev but I’ve been a car guy for 55+yrs. Every vehicle I have ever owned uses the front braces for the majority of the stopping power. Front breaks always wear out first.

 

[shap]

This is m first ev but I’ve been a car guy for 55+yrs. Every vehicle I have ever owned uses the front braces for the majority of the stopping power. Front breaks always wear out first.

Technically you are correct. But with all EVs and hybrids I had I never needed to replace pads or rotors. After 50k miles they had maybe 10% wear. Even my other car, X5 45e phev after 50k is down to 10mm from 12mm.

Rivian should not be different unless there is a problem or bad implementation (use friction breaks for ADAS).

My problem is a bit different, and it seems something wrong with one of the front calipers. Or the wear is normal , in spec ...

 

[R1Thor]

Let me clarify for all the non-mechanics, you included. Don't take this as cut towards you, I'm sure you know things that I don't. What I do know are brakes, specifically Brembo style fixed(not floating) systems. You referred to "caliper pins," even stating you had to pull the caliper to do so. That's not how the front brakes on the Rivian work. Brembo style monoblock calipers do not have caliper pins. They do have brake pad retaining pins, but they should never be greased. If Rivian is greasing these pins, they are in the wrong.


Do not lube
When it comes to Brembo style brake pads, do not lube the brake retaining pins.

The above quote is straight from Brembo.

Good Sir.

Great clarity.

First of all, I want to thank you for your tact and amazing response. To put succinctly: you're a class act. Especially on forums with walls of text, it's easy to come of abrasive and insistent, but you not only were incredibly polite about it; you didn't use your ego to express what you know. I wish I could be so articulate (I come off abrasive a lot more than I care to, especially given: words on a forum are hard to do well). For that alone, I'd like to enjoy a beverage with you should we ever attend a Rivian meetup together--I'm buying.

It's good to have clarity that the front pins aren't meant to be greased. I haven't, personally, had the Brembos on my R1T apart yet (and really don't plan to--my brakes all still look brand new at over 36k miles. I'm in PA where we suffer annual state inspections; they're still reading 'full pad' 10/10 green/green according to my latest printout. And I get a visual on them every time I rotate my tires; which I do every 5,000 miles and also swap between my 21" OE summers and 20" nATs for winter and Off-Road shenanigans).


All that said, I think we need to workshop what's going on here. Regardless of the particulars of the assembly, the absolute point I'm happy to draw a free body diagram for: these braking systems are meant to induce SYMMETRIC and CONSISTENT (equivalent) pressure to BOTH sides of the rotor. [And FWIW: equivalent pressure across each zone in the system--which would be front and rear.] I do concede that minor variations can and will exist: mostly thanks to manufacturing tolerances and environmental wear, exposure, and contamination. But we're talking 10% at most, and I think we can agree even 10% bias is pretty egregious in a well designed, well built system.

SOMEHOW, the system is failing to do that in these cases that are popping up.

As far as I can tell, understanding the way these systems are designed: it's one of two things (in basic terms):
1- Either there's a seizure or occlusion causing frictional interference in places it's not supposed to OR
2- The application of pressure throughout the system is inconsistent.

And the second one is actually MUCH harder to achieve than you might think. Within a closed system, the pressure has to be EQUAL at all points (P1 = P2 = P3 = P4, etc) in order for that system to properly function.

SO, what's going on?

I don't know--we can only postulate without a full RCA.

But what we do know is that uneven wear is 1- abnormal 2- unacceptable 3- a symptom of something bigger (manufacturing defect, engineering insufficiency, or premature wear that I would consider 'failure').

And what's even crazier to me is that I've driven several vehicle with Brembos. A lot of performance vehicles use Brembo Engineering for their braking system. Brembo is relatively renown and well respected in the enthusiast automotive community. I know people who've gone out of their way to upgrade their vehicles braking systems to Brembo. So, I'm actually pretty alarmed that there'd be anything at all glaringly obvious incurring these concerns.

 

[Eric9610]

It may not mean that the greasing is insufficient at the factory, but rather a vehicle that never uses its brakes may need reapplication of the grease more frequently.



Slowing down, accelerating, and cornering wear out tires. The harder you do each of these, the faster your tires will wear. But if you're not using braking assist, you likely have to use the friction brakes manually anyway. The truck will use regen if the battery is warm enough, and if not, it'll blend in friction brakes so the experience is the same. Neither Model S I had was equipped with that feature, and when the battery was cold, I had to use the big pedal a lot more. If you need to scrub off a certain amount of speed, your tires don't care whether its the friction brakes or the motors doing the job.

I have owned 4 Teslas and never had this issue. I have never had this issue on hybrids or ICE cars. considering we are seeing consistent inside wear, it is a manufacturing issue no reason from the factory the inside pad is shot at 50k miles while the outsides have 90% remaining.

 

[shap]

I have owned 4 Teslas and never had this issue. I have never had this issue on hybrids or ICE cars. considering we are seeing consistent inside wear, it is a manufacturing issue no reason from the factory the inside pad is shot at 50k miles while the outsides have 90% remaining.

100% agree. The problem is that Rivian is very poor with communication, and it is not clear how many people are affected. Said that, I think Rivian has a big issue with regen in general - I have never been able to run full regen on decent more than a 40sec-1min. Any longer - regen will be limited and I needed to pump breaks.
I did not have this problem with any cars I owned (EV, PHEV, Hybrids).

Looking back, after owning R1T QM for 2 years, I must say that Rivian did a good job overall for the first car, but a bad job if you compare it to other established brands.
Some issues are design flaws (half shafts knocking, thermals, regen), some QC - breaks, HVAC, and some just pure misinformation - Gen1 (and maybe Gen2 - will see) hands-free support for ADAS.

Overall not so bad for the first car, but they used all the credit by now. If R2 will have similar issues, they will be done IMHO.

 

[Eric9610]

100% agree. The problem is that Rivian is very poor with communication, and it is not clear how many people are affected. Said that, I think Rivian has a big issue with regen in general - I have never been able to run full regen on decent more than a 40sec-1min. Any longer - regen will be limited and I needed to pump breaks.
I did not have this problem with any cars I owned (EV, PHEV, Hybrids).

Looking back, after owning R1T QM for 2 years, I must say that Rivian did a good job overall for the first car, but a bad job if you compare it to other established brands.
Some issues are design flaws (half shafts knocking, thermals, regen), some QC - breaks, HVAC, and some just pure misinformation - Gen1 (and maybe Gen2 - will see) hands-free support for ADAS.

Overall not so bad for the first car, but they used all the credit by now. If R2 will have similar issues, they will be done IMHO.

Tesla did have a brake issue with seizing but corrected it quickly putting in a requirement for break inspections annually if you live in climates where roads are salted.

Just looking at this forum where we are seeing consistent premature inside pad ware Rivian needs to correct this fast.

I love my R1 its amazing but this small ticky tacky things are issues at this price point.

 

[NY_Rob]

I love my R1 its amazing but this small ticky tacky things are issues at this price point.

Over time I've seen the same advice offered over and over "never buy a new model vehicle the first year it's out" and that seems like pretty sound advice when you consider all the changes made on the Gen 2 R1 vehicles (although it took much longer than 1 year to accomplish).

let's hope Rivian has learned a lot and are taking this all in to account when designing the R2 line.

 

[iamnid]

*Only in specific scenarios is it automatically using the hydraulic brakes in addition to regenerative braking.

From Update 2023.50.01
Regenerative Brake Assist
The new Regenerative Brake Assist feature improved deceleration performance in cold climates, on long downhills, and in vehicle high states of charge by blending more consistently and seamlessly with standard braking. To disable this feature, go to Settings > Driver+ > Regen Brake Assist.

I have no such settings in my vehicle. Is it a Gen 1 thing?

 

[shap]

I have no such settings in my vehicle. Is it a Gen 1 thing?

No, you should have it in all generations and all variations

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