Coast to coast race: Model Y vs R2 (ABRP simulation)

[Apprunner]

Someone just posted a 2.7 miles/kwh on a road trip at 75-80mph for R2. That implies about a 235 mile range. The Model Y will easily exceed this at those speeds.

Sponsored

 

[Jeremy3292]

Someone just posted a 2.7 miles/kwh on a road trip at 75-80mph for R2. That implies about a 235 mile range. The Model Y will easily exceed this at those speeds.

Model Y will get better efficiency than R2 for every mph you add, bc the Model Y has a much lower Cd and frontal area than the R2 due to its egg shape. Drag is by far the largest factor in range as speed increases but is of much less importance at lower speeds. That's why the R2 city rating (low mph) is better than Model Y bc it has a bigger battery. So at 80 mph Model Y will definitely win bc the drag outweighs the ~11% larger battery R2 has.

 

[Jeremy3292]

At least for me, my “arguing” is that since the Model Y launched in 2019, there hasn’t been that much improvement in the fundamental EV tech. I suppose you can say the same thing about the Model Y.

Whereas EVs in China and even BMW are showing much more improvements over this time. For example, the BMW iX3 gets 128 mpge on real world highway driving at 70mph. Neither the R2 nor current Model Y, on any trim, is close to this highway number.

Yes, the BMW iX3 costs more but you also get a much bigger battery (20kwh more than R2) for that money, even without considering the 400kw charging speed.

I was pointing out that we’re basically paying the same money for essentially very small incrementally better EV tech over the past 7 years

BMW just put a large battery in the iX3, hardly innovation. 800v chargers are still being built out also, so I have no doubt Rivian will be 800v in the next generation, starting with R1 that needs it much more than R2 does at this time.

Comparing China to the USA is a fruitless endeavor as the countries and incentives couldn't be more different. The Chinese government forces innovation bc it made EV's a national priority under authoritarian rule. In the USA the free market dictates innovation and there is a lack of demand for it at this time. Gas vehicles rule and will continue to rule for the next some odd years in the USA. Just reality.

 

[DuoRivians]

BMW just put a large battery in the iX3, hardly innovation. 800v chargers are still being built out also, so I have no doubt Rivian will be 800v in the next generation, starting with R1 that needs it much more than R2 does at this time.

Comparing China to the USA is a fruitless endeavor as the countries and incentives couldn't be more different. The Chinese government forces innovation bc it made EV's a national priority under authoritarian rule. In the USA the free market dictates innovation and there is a lack of demand for it at this time. Gas vehicles rule and will continue to rule for the next some odd years in the USA. Just reality.

I specifically pointed out the BMW iX3 gets much better highway mpge at 70mph than either R2 or MY. This has nothing to do with a bigger battery.

 

[SANZC02]

I specifically pointed out the BMW iX3 gets much better highway mpge at 70mph than either R2 or MY. This has nothing to do with a bigger battery.

interesting with the exception of the 20 inch summer tires the ratings are very similar to the MY and R2 performances. With a drag coefficient similar to the MY why do you think it would be so much better on the highway? They all look pretty similar.

 

[DuoRivians]

interesting with the exception of the 20 inch summer tires the ratings are very similar to the MY and R2 performances. With a drag coefficient similar to the MY why do you think it would be so much better on the highway? They all look pretty similar.

I think BMW did a much better job at reducing the drag from the motors at highway speeds, unlike the R2 and MY, where you’re “fighting” against the electric motors.

More info on BMW motors whereas Rivian and Tesla use permanent magnet motors only (I believe)

 

[Jeremy3292]

I specifically pointed out the BMW iX3 gets much better highway mpge at 70mph than either R2 or MY. This has nothing to do with a bigger battery.

Seems source data would say you’re pretty far off from reality.

 

[SANZC02]

I think BMW did a much better job at reducing the drag from the motors at highway speeds, unlike the R2 and MY, where you’re “fighting” against the electric motors.

That does not show in the MPGe ratings. Looking at those 4 sets of numbers, I’d almost think the 20 inch summer tires are so much of an outlier that the numbers are suspect and probably should be reverified.

 

[DuoRivians]

Seems source data would say you’re pretty far off from reality.

View attachment 160620

BMW notoriously understates their actual mileage versus epa. Whereas Tesla and Rivian both overstate their epa range. The actual range tests by people in an IX3 is what I’m quoting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EuroEV/s/rYebzFsIR7

If you come across actual highway mpge by either R2 or MY, please share.

 

[Jeremy3292]

BMW notoriously understates their actual mileage versus epa. Whereas Tesla and Rivian both overstate their epa range. The actual range tests by people in an IX3 is what I’m quoting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EuroEV/s/rYebzFsIR7

If you come across actual highway mpge by either R2 or MY, please share.

You keep moving the goal posts. Actual range of iX3 is far greater bc it has a massive battery pack, which I already stated. It is no more or less efficient than Model Y or R2. It just has a big battery.

 

[DuoRivians]

You keep moving the goal posts. Actual range of iX3 is far greater bc it has a massive battery pack, which I already stated. It is no more or less efficient than Model Y or R2. It just has a big battery.

I’ve always said actual highway mpge for the iX3. The extra battery pack and better charging speed are added benefits. Read it over again.

Edit: I’ve highlighted it for you.

 

[SANZC02]

BMW notoriously understates their actual mileage versus epa. Whereas Tesla and Rivian both overstate their epa range. The actual range tests by people in an IX3 is what I’m quoting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/EuroEV/s/rYebzFsIR7

If you come across actual highway mpge by either R2 or MY, please share.

First comment says it was a number extrapolated from a 300 mile trip, a second try was lower. Still pretty impressive range.

Range is not one of my main concerns for an EV, my longest stretches are typically less than 140 miles on road trips, then I stop, stretch my legs, and charge keeping the battery % low for faster charging.

I still think Lucid has some of the most efficient hardware, shame they are not doing better. Would be nice if someone with more business savvy would purchased their hardware tech.

 

[DuoRivians]

First comment says it was a number extrapolated from a 300 mile trip, a second try was lower. Still pretty impressive range.

Range is not one of my main concerns for an EV, my longest stretches are typically less than 140 miles on road trips, then I stop, stretch my legs, and charge keeping the battery % low for faster charging.

I still think Lucid has some of the most efficient hardware, shame they are not doing better. Would be nice if someone with more business savvy would purchased their hardware tech.

I’m not talking about range. I’m talking about EFFICIENCY at highway speed. So 300 mile sample size is plenty for data

I converted 263wh/mile to 128 mpge since that’s what everyone is looking at here for some reason.

 

[Jeremy3292]

I’ve always said actual highway mpge for the iX3. The extra battery pack and better charging speed are added benefits. Read it over again.

Did you even read the article you linked? He got nowhere near 500 miles range. I’ll even use the higher 385 miles number in the calc below for you. R2 is a high riding big box, of course it’s not going to be as efficient as something thats a lower to the ground egg. That has nothing to do with efficiency and everything to do with design choice. This is why the Model Y actually has a vastly superior mpge than all 3 bc it’s an egg.

BMW ix3:

109 kWh / 33.7 kWh = 3.2344

385 miles / 3.2344 = 119 mpge

Model Y Juniper AW

75 kWh / 33.7 kWh = 2.226

298 miles / 2.226 = 134 mpge

As I said, design shape is what matters for efficiency at highway speeds. Couldn’t be clearer.

Sources:

https://insideevs.com/news/754181/model-y-juniper-vs-old-model-y/

 

[Apprunner]

First comment says it was a number extrapolated from a 300 mile trip, a second try was lower. Still pretty impressive range.

Range is not one of my main concerns for an EV, my longest stretches are typically less than 140 miles on road trips, then I stop, stretch my legs, and charge keeping the battery % low for faster charging.

I still think Lucid has some of the most efficient hardware, shame they are not doing better. Would be nice if someone with more business savvy would purchased their hardware tech.

Lucid released a minivan in SUV guise and messed up the software. Its not shocking they aren't doing better.

Sponsored