Sponsored

Ford Explorer EV revealed

Dark-Fx

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
96
Messages
9,351
Reaction score
17,734
Location
Michigan
Vehicles
Polestar 2, R1T, R1S, Livewire One, Fisker Ocean
Occupation
Engineering
Clubs
 
Uses VW's MEB architecture... YUCK!
I forgot about that. Guessing cost ended up being the reason Ford didn't end up using the Rivian skateboard. But maybe capability was a primary demotivator since what Ford vehicle can really compare? Even the GT500 is slower to 60 mph than the R1T.
Sponsored

 

Donald Stanfield

Well-Known Member
First Name
Donald
Joined
Jul 31, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
4,051
Reaction score
8,044
Location
USA
Vehicles
Rivian R1T, 2024 BMW i4 M50
Occupation
Stuff and things
Interesting. So you think an Explorer EV will somehow be similar to the Explorer ST that you apparently didn't like?

I'd think it will be a completely different animal. Passing on a vehicle based upon experience with an ICE vehicle doesn't seem very open minded, but that's just my opinion.
The better question for me would be WHY didn’t I like or why don’t I care for Ford and depending on that reason you could judge why I don’t want to try a Ford.

It’s because their technology package sucks. Everyone bags on Rivian for their tech and interface when it is a hundred times better than my explorer was. Their screen was so laggy it was useless. It’s not like my ST was from 2005 or something either, it was a 2020 and all the technology with exception of the massage seats didn’t work very well.

The cooled seats cooledish, sure navigation was there sorta but it didn’t work. Anything that wasn’t usable by a hardware button felt like it was added to the car to check a box without any concern for whether or not it actually worked as billed.

That is not even the biggest reason I’m done with Ford. After their massive markups and letting their dealers straight skin their customers I don’t want to do business with a company with so little integrity.

20-30k OVER sticker on more than one model of their cars and Ford’s fix was to just Jack up prices sky high themselves. That’s some crook level dishonesty and I want no part of a manufacturer playing games like that. Cars are only cars, and if my choice is to drive a shit box because all nicer cars have manufacturers playing games like Ford does I’ll be driving around a razor scooter or an old beat to heck something.

You can shear a sheep many times but skin one only once. Seeing what the lightning and the bronco raptor have done as far as price gouging goes I don’t know why anyone continues to do business with them. I consider myself skinned by Ford.
 

connoisseurr

Well-Known Member
First Name
Connor
Joined
Oct 1, 2022
Threads
23
Messages
872
Reaction score
1,217
Location
Northern VA
Vehicles
22 R1T, 23 MYP
Occupation
I encrypt PDFs for Boomers
Clubs
 
I forgot about that. Guessing cost ended up being the reason Ford didn't end up using the Rivian skateboard. But maybe capability was a primary demotivator since what Ford vehicle can really compare? Even the GT500 is slower to 60 mph than the R1T.
Also consider making these in their Mexico plant, or perhaps in Kentucky, then having to ship over to EU... that gets costly. They're already doing that for the Mach-E and I heard the delivery process causes more headache for Ford, especially with batteries crossing the ocean and arriving very low.
 

Scoiatael

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2021
Threads
35
Messages
923
Reaction score
1,496
Location
Southern CA
Vehicles
F150 Lightning
Honestly it doesn't look that bad, but until Ford actually makes progress in how they sell EVs, its going to remain a disaster. If Ford went direct to consumer for all their EVs, and setup their own EV service centers, they would be able to make a big jump in the total % of EVs they have in the US. Dealerships and their service centers are still not equip to sell EVs. They also need to work on their OTA updates. See so many complaints on the Lightning forums about OTA updates never installing, or not actually working.
 

White Shadow

Well-Known Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Nov 11, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
689
Reaction score
511
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Jeep & Audi
Occupation
SP
The better question for me would be WHY didn’t I like or why don’t I care for Ford and depending on that reason you could judge why I don’t want to try a Ford.

It’s because their technology package sucks. Everyone bags on Rivian for their tech and interface when it is a hundred times better than my explorer was. Their screen was so laggy it was useless. It’s not like my ST was from 2005 or something either, it was a 2020 and all the technology with exception of the massage seats didn’t work very well.

The cooled seats cooledish, sure navigation was there sorta but it didn’t work. Anything that wasn’t usable by a hardware button felt like it was added to the car to check a box without any concern for whether or not it actually worked as billed.

That is not even the biggest reason I’m done with Ford. After their massive markups and letting their dealers straight skin their customers I don’t want to do business with a company with so little integrity.

20-30k OVER sticker on more than one model of their cars and Ford’s fix was to just Jack up prices sky high themselves. That’s some crook level dishonesty and I want no part of a manufacturer playing games like that. Cars are only cars, and if my choice is to drive a shit box because all nicer cars have manufacturers playing games like Ford does I’ll be driving around a razor scooter or an old beat to heck something.

You can shear a sheep many times but skin one only once. Seeing what the lightning and the bronco raptor have done as far as price gouging goes I don’t know why anyone continues to do business with them. I consider myself skinned by Ford.
Hmm...I had a rental Explorer for 4 weeks when my Jeep was in the body shop waiting to be fix or declared a total loss and everything seemed to work just fine. No issues whatsoever with the technology. I liked the technology in my Jeep better, but everything in the Ford still worked as intended.

I find it amusing when people get bent out of shape about dealership mark-ups. There would be no dealership mark-ups if people weren't willing to pay them. So if paying over MSRP offends you, then don't pay the mark-up. FWIW, I'm in the same boat---I absolutely refuse to pay over sticker for any vehicle. Interestingly, if you're willing to do a little work, you can almost always find a dealership willing to sell you a "hot" vehicle at MSRP at a time when everyone else is asking for a premium.

Fun fact: I've never in my life paid MSRP for a vehicle. I've always been able to negotiate a lower price and I've purchased somewhere above 20 new vehicles in my life so far. The most difficult time I ever had was when I purchased my BMW M3. The dealership wanted $3,500 over sticker for it and wouldn't budge. I found another dealership 150 miles away that sold me the same car at $1,000 under MSRP. To be honest, I hate fixed pricing models. I know most people prefer them, but I'm someone who enjoys the negotiation process when buying a car, while most people can't stand it.
 
Last edited:

Sponsored

White Shadow

Well-Known Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Nov 11, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
689
Reaction score
511
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Jeep & Audi
Occupation
SP
I forgot about that. Guessing cost ended up being the reason Ford didn't end up using the Rivian skateboard. But maybe capability was a primary demotivator since what Ford vehicle can really compare? Even the GT500 is slower to 60 mph than the R1T.
It's hard to compare an ICE vehicle off the line with an EV. You know, all that instant toque. Still though, a race to 60 MPH is very close between a GT500 and a Rivian. But after 60, the GT500 just pulls away from a Rivian quite easily and continues on to 180 mph (governed) top speed.

EVs are fun off the line, but don't mess with a performance ICE vehicle at highway speeds.
 

Dark-Fx

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
96
Messages
9,351
Reaction score
17,734
Location
Michigan
Vehicles
Polestar 2, R1T, R1S, Livewire One, Fisker Ocean
Occupation
Engineering
Clubs
 
EVs are fun off the line, but don't mess with a performance ICE vehicle at highway speeds.
I've stayed with an SRT Hellcat that was obviously modified from 70-110 but obviously once you hit 110 only a few seconds after starting it's all over for the Rivian. Boring.
 

jbssfelix

Well-Known Member
First Name
J
Joined
Apr 3, 2022
Threads
1
Messages
112
Reaction score
200
Location
Denver, CO
Vehicles
Tesla Model 3; Rivian R1S
Clubs
 
From the article:

"Under the skin, of course, the Explorer shares plenty with the ID.4. Ford’s press info was disappointingly light on technical detail, and didn’t outline which of the VW powertrain and battery options the Explorer would take, but Auto Express says the Explorer range will start with a 168 hp (170 PS) model powered by a single motor and 52 kWh battery that gives 218 miles (351 km) of range, but can only charge at 130 kW."

Generally, Europeans are fine with less hp and range, as they generally don't need to travel as far by car (and the existing EV charging infrastructure there is already miles ahead of ours)
 

Donald Stanfield

Well-Known Member
First Name
Donald
Joined
Jul 31, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
4,051
Reaction score
8,044
Location
USA
Vehicles
Rivian R1T, 2024 BMW i4 M50
Occupation
Stuff and things
Hmm...I had a rental Explorer for 4 weeks when my Jeep was in the body shop waiting to be fix or declared a total loss and everything seemed to work just fine. No issues whatsoever with the technology. I liked the technology in my Jeep better, but everything in the Ford still worked as intended.

I find it amusing when people get bent out of shape about dealership mark-ups. There would be no dealership mark-ups if people weren't willing to pay them. So if paying over MSRP offends you, then don't pay the mark-up. FWIW, I'm in the same boat---I absolutely refuse to pay over sticker for any vehicle. Interestingly, if you're willing to do a little work, you can almost always find a dealership willing to sell you a "hot" vehicle at MSRP at a time when everyone else is asking for a premium.

Fun fact: I've never in my life paid MSRP for a vehicle. I've always been able to negotiate a lower price and I've purchased somewhere above 20 new vehicles in my life so far. The most difficult time I ever had was when I purchased my BMW M3. The dealership wanted $3,500 over sticker for it and wouldn't budge. I found another dealership 150 miles away that sold me the same car at $1,000 under MSRP. To be honest, I hate fixed pricing models. I know most people prefer them, but I'm someone who enjoys the negotiation process when buying a car, while most people can't stand it.
Sure I can find a dealership that isn't going to screw me, but that's not really the point. The point is these crushing markups were so well known that MOST Ford dealers were doing them and maybe still are. So much so that it got national attention. Ford didn't do anything about it, which means they were complicit in screwing over their own customers. I don't want to do business with a company like that and I hope they fold up for doing it.

It's because of customers paying it, AND other customers still using their products that they can get away with fucking over their customer base. You're still complicit in it whether you pay the markup yourself or not in my view. It's one thing if a few dealers here and there are doing the marking up and screwing people but Ford was probably the biggest offender and the markups were also some of the highest per vehicle I've seen quoted not counting super cars or hyper cars. I too won't pay over sticker for any vehicle but I take it a step further and I won't do business with a company that is willingly screwing over all their customers in a widespread fashion.
 

White Shadow

Well-Known Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Nov 11, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
689
Reaction score
511
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Jeep & Audi
Occupation
SP
I've stayed with an SRT Hellcat that was obviously modified from 70-110 but obviously once you hit 110 only a few seconds after starting it's all over for the Rivian. Boring.
Do you ever watch the Auto Glory channel on YouTube? It's fun to watch if you're into street racing. Short videos that are to the point with no BS. They typically race modded cars from 60 to 160 on a mostly empty Florida highway. There's a couple of Tesla Model S Plaids that participate and they usually do pretty well, but they can't keep up with some of the faster modified cars on the channel. Still fun to watch though.
 

Sponsored

White Shadow

Well-Known Member
First Name
Thomas
Joined
Nov 11, 2021
Threads
6
Messages
689
Reaction score
511
Location
NJ
Vehicles
Jeep & Audi
Occupation
SP
Sure I can find a dealership that isn't going to screw me, but that's not really the point. The point is these crushing markups were so well known that MOST Ford dealers were doing them and maybe still are. So much so that it got national attention. Ford didn't do anything about it, which means they were complicit in screwing over their own customers. I don't want to do business with a company like that and I hope they fold up for doing it.

It's because of customers paying it, AND other customers still using their products that they can get away with fucking over their customer base. You're still complicit in it whether you pay the markup yourself or not in my view. It's one thing if a few dealers here and there are doing the marking up and screwing people but Ford was probably the biggest offender and the markups were also some of the highest per vehicle I've seen quoted not counting super cars or hyper cars. I too won't pay over sticker for any vehicle but I take it a step further and I won't do business with a company that is willingly screwing over all their customers in a widespread fashion.
Okay, but think about what you're saying. First, boycotting Ford just isn't going to happen. There are people WILLING to pay well over sticker for vehicles in high demand. Think about that.....what that tells me is that other people will be tickled pink to find and buy those vehicles at MSRP. That's still a winning proposition for Ford dealers. In other words, the number of people like you who are obviously angry about it aren't even going to make a blip on Ford's radar screen. There will always be people lining up to buy their vehicles, at/below/above MSRP.

The other point is that the way the dealership model works, manufacturers don't really have full control over sales prices for their vehicles. That's why they call the number on the window sticker the MSRP....you know, the SUGGESTED price. You should really be angry at the dealerships, not the manufacturer. You can argue that Ford should be able to do something about price gouging and maybe that's true, but I think this has already been challenged enough to realize that the manufacturers don't have enough power to really make a change to the dealership network. For me, I put more blame on the people who pay the inflated prices. If that stopped, we'd never see mark-ups at all....but I guess that's Capitalism at work for ya....
 

Donald Stanfield

Well-Known Member
First Name
Donald
Joined
Jul 31, 2022
Threads
37
Messages
4,051
Reaction score
8,044
Location
USA
Vehicles
Rivian R1T, 2024 BMW i4 M50
Occupation
Stuff and things
Okay, but think about what you're saying. First, boycotting Ford just isn't going to happen. There are people WILLING to pay well over sticker for vehicles in high demand. Think about that.....what that tells me is that other people will be tickled pink to find and buy those vehicles at MSRP. That's still a winning proposition for Ford dealers. In other words, the number of people like you who are obviously angry about it aren't even going to make a blip on Ford's radar screen. There will always be people lining up to buy their vehicles, at/below/above MSRP.

The other point is that the way the dealership model works, manufacturers don't really have full control over sales prices for their vehicles. That's why they call the number on the window sticker the MSRP....you know, the SUGGESTED price. You should really be angry at the dealerships, not the manufacturer. You can argue that Ford should be able to do something about price gouging and maybe that's true, but I think this has already been challenged enough to realize that the manufacturers don't have enough power to really make a change to the dealership network. For me, I put more blame on the people who pay the inflated prices. If that stopped, we'd never see mark-ups at all....but I guess that's Capitalism at work for ya....
Oh I understand that my lonely boycott isn’t going to hurt Ford’s pocket. Maybe if enough alternatives come out and enough people switch then yeah it’s possible in the future but probably not right now and definitely not by just me.

Thing is though I can only really control the actions of one person, myself. I have a problem with what Ford has done and how impotent they were in dealing with the price gouging dealers. So my standing on principle only really needs to mean something to me.

Change always starts with one person, and Ford doesn’t do anything that much better than everyone else so you really aren’t giving up much by boycotting them. Maybe more people will follow my lead, maybe not. At least I’ll still be following the principles I choose to believe.
 

elektrode

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bran
Joined
Jul 11, 2022
Threads
32
Messages
626
Reaction score
874
Location
NC
Vehicles
Honda Ridgeline to R1T
Was I watching an EV reveal or a Tomb Raider video game commercial?
 
 




Top