Sponsored

Hydraulic roll-control & other FAQ tid-bits

LoneStar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Threads
79
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
3,543
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
'25 R1T Gen2
Occupation
engineer
Clubs
 
Somehow in all the hunting I've done through the Rivian website I missed this very cool technical feature. Anyone else not know about it?

Rivian R1T R1S Hydraulic roll-control & other FAQ tid-bits Hyd roll-control


Checkout the FAQ's. Maybe there's something new for you https://rivian.com/support/vehicles
Sponsored

 

Sdvictor

Well-Known Member
First Name
Victor
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
306
Reaction score
580
Location
Seattle, WA
Vehicles
R1T
OP
OP
LoneStar

LoneStar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2020
Threads
79
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
3,543
Location
San Diego
Vehicles
'25 R1T Gen2
Occupation
engineer
Clubs
 
I had a Toy 4RUNNER with KDSS. it would be similar in that it had hydraulic-actuated (articulated) sway bars. So it did have physical anti-sway bars connected to it. Interesting that Rivian says the sway bars are entirely replaced by hydraulic motion-controls.
 

electruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Threads
74
Messages
4,165
Reaction score
7,741
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S
Absolutely not equivalent to KDSS as there are no anti-roll bars. Dig up my old post here on this subject from late 2019.
 

MReda

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Oct 16, 2020
Threads
14
Messages
489
Reaction score
819
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicles
Audi S4, Lexus LX470
I had a Toy 4RUNNER with KDSS. it would be similar in that it had hydraulic-actuated (articulated) sway bars. So it did have physical anti-sway bars connected to it. Interesting that Rivian says the sway bars are entirely replaced by hydraulic motion-controls.
I agree, this is probably nothing like KDSS. My Lexus has the predecessor to KDSS (they added it to the GX 100 series, but not the LX, and then put it in the 200 series Land Cruiser chassis, if I remember correctly). Hopefully the Rivian system behaves nothing like this - these previous generation systems were intended to be largely inactive on the road, but enable more articulation off road, for a vehicle with independent suspension. The description makes me think it is more continuously active in all conditions. The description also shows up on one of the popups under rivian.com/r1t, and none of the pictures show anything that looks like an anti-sway bar, but I wouldn't consider that conclusive.
 

Sponsored

TXKidd

Well-Known Member
First Name
Harrison
Joined
May 28, 2019
Threads
0
Messages
145
Reaction score
243
Location
Colorado Springs, CO
Vehicles
R1T, R2 reservation
Occupation
Software Engineer
Absolutely not equivalent to KDSS as there are no anti-roll bars. Dig up my old post here on this subject from late 2019.
I’m assuming this is probably in reference to the Tenneco Kinetic setup? I always think back to the beginning when there were mentions of having a similar setup to McLaren. Haven’t heard much since then though.
 

electruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Threads
74
Messages
4,165
Reaction score
7,741
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S
I’m assuming this is probably in reference to the Tenneco Kinetic setup? I always think back to the beginning when there were mentions of having a similar setup to McLaren. Haven’t heard much since then though.
Yes, one of the very early Motor Trend articles stated they were using a Tenneco setup. Who knows if that is still the supplier but same operating principle.
 

Gshenderson

Well-Known Member
First Name
Greg
Joined
Sep 28, 2019
Threads
13
Messages
1,229
Reaction score
2,777
Location
Park City, UT / Kemmerer, WY
Vehicles
2015 Tesla S 85D, 2019 4Runner TRD Offroad, R1T
I love the KDSS is my 4Runner. I drive a lot of winding mountain roads, and doing that at speed with limited roll is really nice. Hopefully this performs comparably, even though mechanically it’s a very different approach. Hopefully the absence of sway bars will mean increased wheel articulation when off-roading.
 

skyote

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Threads
55
Messages
2,726
Reaction score
5,651
Location
Austin, TX
Vehicles
Jeeps, 2500HD Duramax, R1S Preorder (Dec 2018)
Yes, full active damping with hydraulic roll control. Very cool stuff that was feasible only on very expensive vehicles just years ago. Cheaper sensors & compute allow this... I'm surprised we're not seeing it on more luxury or sport vehicles yet.
 

Sdvictor

Well-Known Member
First Name
Victor
Joined
Mar 13, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
306
Reaction score
580
Location
Seattle, WA
Vehicles
R1T
Last edited:

Sponsored

Ssaygmo

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sage
Joined
Sep 11, 2020
Threads
3
Messages
123
Reaction score
171
Location
Ca
Vehicles
Volt
I love the KDSS is my 4Runner. I drive a lot of winding mountain roads, and doing that at speed with limited roll is really nice. Hopefully this performs comparably, even though mechanically it’s a very different approach. Hopefully the absence of sway bars will mean increased wheel articulation when off-roading.
Here’s full compression and full droop, I grabbed screenshots when I first saw the video. Looks decent for independent suspension on a street vehicle, however it’s about half the articulation you get with a solid axle vehicle like the jeep, power wagon, etc. should be “good enough” for most people’s use, probably almost what you’d get from a stock Tacoma or 4Runner.





Rivian R1T R1S Hydraulic roll-control & other FAQ tid-bits DBF9ADEF-8FF0-40A2-95F3-F2F77C40C6E0


Rivian R1T R1S Hydraulic roll-control & other FAQ tid-bits 256FC37A-63E5-4977-B60E-B13429E0DAB5


Rivian R1T R1S Hydraulic roll-control & other FAQ tid-bits 5939F6FF-2767-469A-954A-3316CC7E7C35
 

Dark-Fx

Well-Known Member
First Name
Brian
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
148
Messages
13,585
Reaction score
27,440
Location
Michigan
Vehicles
R1T, R1S, Livewire One, Sierra EV, R1S
Occupation
Engineering
Clubs
 
With independent motors on every corner, it's probably a lot less important to keep every wheel planted. Lockers on a normal offroader are helpful too but they don't let the wheels spin at different rates, so anything other than straight flat line results in tire scrub.
 

electruck

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Threads
74
Messages
4,165
Reaction score
7,741
Location
Dallas, TX
Vehicles
2023 Rivian R1S
Interesting as Tenneco actually owns KDSS. Tenneco acquired the company that created the KDSS, Kinetic Pty Ltd. Any current Tenneco system is based on or a potentially a variant of KDSS as they own the patents
https://www.tenneco.com/tennecos_kinetic®_technology_on_2008_toyota_landcruiser/
Completely different product but perhaps from the same group of Kinetic engineers. KDSS basically provides an improvement on the standard anti-roll bar by allowing them to have a variable spring rate. They were still paired with standard shocks. The newer Kinetic H2/X2/CVSA2 products are a complete re-engineering of the suspension entirely eliminating the anti-roll bars and standard shocks and replacing them with hydraulically cross-linked dampers resulting in a vastly superior solution.
In the new KineticTM H2 CES system, the front anti-roll bar, rear anti-roll bar and four shock absorbers have been replaced. In their place are four double-acting hydraulic cylinders each with two integrated CES damper valves, four roll accumulators, local comfort valves, an automatic pressure maintenance unit (APMU) and interconnecting hydraulic lines.​
The two CES damper valves at each corner restrict the flow between the cylinder and accumulators to electronically control roll, bounce and pitch modes, allowing decoupling of transient ride and handling performance.​
Furthermore, the use of the electronically controlled CES damper valves, combined with intelligent control algorithms, allows independent control of body and wheel motions.​
On a side note, in looking back over the linked brochure, I noticed mention of the term "comfort valve". This was also noted on the engineering display in a screen grab from the recent cold weather testing video. Perhaps this is an indication that Motor Trend's early Tenneco reference is still accurate.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
 








Top