Jump Battery Recommendations

[logan]

Yes, but you need tools in order to remove some trim inside the wheel well to get at the manual frunk release pull cable. So, where do you store those tools?? Lol, yes I know some store the tools inside a ziplock bag inside the trailer hitch receiver, but lots of people use the trailer hitch, so that rules out that area for tool storage. As I mentioned earlier.. no good solutions to storing a large jump pack, unless your Rivian dies in your own driveway.

It's amazing how little thought Rivian gave to something as simple as frunk access considering the 12V batteries live under there, and you need 12V power to access it

I store them in the area where the jump wires are. Next too but not in the hitch- which I use. In my latest version I have them in a little bag with a drawstring and the drawstring wrapped around the circular access panel's connector.

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[logan]

1) Where are y'all storing these things?
2) If the jump pack uses standard Sealed Lead-Acid batts, they will probably be dead when you actually need it. These packs need to be recharged frequently.

IMO, there is really no good solution for the dead 12v battery jump issue unless it happens in your driveway.

For 2, sometimes these kinds of things can be addressed via habits. Like plugging in the jump pack to the outlet in the truck as part of your routine for long drives / trips. As long as you do this every few months you are probably okay. This works for me for both my old jump pack and also I hook up another ice vehicle to a battery tender when I'm out of town and it keeps it in good shape too even though I don't always have a tender in reach.

Not that you want to do this but I'm saying sometimes tying something you need to happen periodically to something else that already happens periodically can help. FWIW.

 

[NY_Rob]

You know what would have solved it? A key, even if was to frunk/tailgate only! ?

Yeah, I didn't want to go there for fear of being kicked off the forum!

Or, just one keyed lock on the driver side door would have solved a whole myriad of issues related to being locked out and the vehicle immobilized due to a simple dead 12V battery. Keyless entry is great, we have it on all our vehicles.. but the i3 and Jeep 4xe also have a mechanical door lock just in case the 12V battery goes dead. Having a fool proof can-not-fail backup method of getting in your vehicle offers great peace of mind in the long run knowing you'll never be locked out at some distant location.

 

[kyunam]

You know what would have solved it? A key, even if was to frunk/tailgate only! ?

That is a key point.

 

[MacO512]

Yeah, I didn't want to go there for fear of being kicked off the forum!

Or, just one keyed lock on the driver side door would have solved a whole myriad of issues related to being locked out and the vehicle immobilized due to a simple dead 12V battery. Keyless entry is great, we have it on all our vehicles.. but the i3 and Jeep 4xe also have a mechanical door lock just in case the 12V battery goes dead. Having a fool proof can-not-fail backup method of getting in your vehicle offers great peace of mind in the long run knowing you'll never be locked out at some distant location.

A keyed drivers door would require a ton of other changes. Now every car would need two sets of key fobs handed out at sale. Key fobs also would be exclusive to a VIN. Rivian stopped giving any fob out awhile ago. Dealers would need a whole system to replace keys and manufacturers for those keyed parts. Users would also be confused by having physical key, credit card key, phone as key.

Also just gaining cabin access wouldn't resolve a dead 12v. There would need to be a mechanical frunk release that was routed into the passenger cabin.

Then what would the user do to resolve a dead 12v if they gain access to the frunk? They'd need a jump that can supply 30amps continuously. Portable jump packs can't do that. Probably need a spare 12v battery (miniscule % of people would ever carry that) or an ICE vehicle with jumper cables. If you have an ICE vehicle with jumper cables can just jump the leads to the right of the hitch today.

Overall it totally makes sense to me that Rivian didn't add keyed access. It overcomplicates an already complicated vehicle and does not provide any simple resolutions.

I do however think Rivian should have put a bigger battery in the R1! There is tons of space in the frunk area. Easily could fit a lifepo 100ah self heating battery that is provides 10x more capacity than the 9ah useable capacity on the R1 AGM battery. It would greatly improve vampire drain issues too.

Here's one that's about $200 and with a Rivian contract would likely cost half the price

https://www.litime.com/products/12v-100ah-self-heating-ithium-battery?_pos=1&_fid=c53472820&_ss=c

This would have to be designed for the vehicle though. The problem is the current Rivian 12v system is not configured for lifepo.

 

[NY_Rob]

^ having a physical key was not intended to help "jump start" a dead 12V battery, it was intended to give owners access to the cabin for shelter when waiting for the flatbed and so they could get their belongings out (think of someone having medications, clothing, bags, luggage, etc.. inside the cabin) if their 12V batt died when they were not at home.

I see you like the big 100aH battery? Yeah, it's great.. I use two of those LifePo batts for my boat.. but they are large compared to the OEM Rivian battery. Have you had the Frunk tub out of your Rivian? I have.. and there is no room for a battery that size anywhere between the Frunk liner and the vehicle frame. In order to use a battery that size, they'd have to severely cut in to the Frunk tub area.

Of all the design issues with the R1 vehicles (and there are amazingly few considering it's a new manufacturers first mass produced vehicle) the 12V system easily stands out as the weakest link so far.

 

[MacO512]

^ having a physical key was not intended to help "jump start" a dead 12V battery, it was intended to give owners access to the cabin for shelter when waiting for the flatbed and so they could get their belongings out (think of someone having medications, clothing, bags, luggage, etc.. inside the cabin) if their 12V batt died when they were not at home.

I see you like the big 100aH battery? Yeah, it's great.. I use two of those LifePo batts for my boat.. but they are large compared to the OEM Rivian battery. Have you had the Frunk tub out of your Rivian? I have.. and there is no room for a battery that size anywhere between the Frunk liner and the vehicle frame. In order to use a battery that size, they'd have to severely cut in to the Frunk tub area.

Of all the design issues with the R1 vehicles (and there are amazingly few considering it's a new manufacturers first mass produced vehicle) the 12V system easily stands out as the weakest link so far.

A physical key would require a ton of processes as I mentioned (multiple key fobs, dealer network change to assign keys, user experience change, manufactures of keys, increase in theft risk) which all together is what $500-1000 a vehicle? Just doesn't make sense for a such a limited use as gaining shelter while waiting for a flat bed tow truck. Would confuse the hell out of users too.

Beyond the increased cost a big selling point of EV such as the Rivian is the slick key interface that can use your phone and a backup of a credit card. Saying you need to carry around an old style physical key for shelter while the flatbed arrives to tow your dead vehicle would not be a selling point! Would be super concerning how often that is expected.

The current two 12v battery (or single 12v and capacitor) is the identical physical size of two 30ah lithium batteries. So if Rivian wanted the same physical space could just have a single 60ah LIFEPO in that space. That would give 6x the usable capacity of the AGM battery that was used (19Ah and AGM should stay above 50%). I'd think they could have changed the layout to fit a 100ah in there - but even if not that 60ah would be a far better solution. Tesla changed all their 12v batteries to lithium many years ago.

 

[NY_Rob]

The current two 12v battery (or single 12v and capacitor) is the identical physical size of two 30ah lithium batteries. So if they wanted the same physical space could just have a single 60ah LIFEPO in that space.

Those two 12V batts or 12V batt+ Cap are mounted short end to short end forming a long narrow space which is completely different than any single larger capacity battery would occupy... which is why they went with two batts originally because they couldn't fit any larger battery in that space. You can not shoehorn a larger single 60aH LifePo battery in that long narrow space. There are all kinds of wiring harnesses and relays plus multiple terminal blocks running through that area. It's a terrible area for a battery, but that's what they used and that's the space available to work with. Pull your Frunk liner, take a good look at the battery area.. even try to measure the available space and then come back with recommendations because right now you're making suggestions without facts and the physical limitations of the area you have available to work in.

The Rivian 12V batts are 7.375" x 3", so once you remove them you have a 14.75"X3" area to work with... please find a single 60aH or 100aH Lifepo battery that will fit in that space?

 

[NY_Rob]

Please tell this guy why having no physical key is a great idea...
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ob-only-paak-can-f-all-the-the-way-off.42507/

 

[MacO512]

Those two 12V batts or 12V batt+ Cap are mounted short end to short end forming a long narrow space which is completely different than any single larger capacity battery would occupy... which is why they went with two batts originally because they couldn't fit any larger battery in that space. You can not shoehorn a larger single 60aH LifePo battery in that long narrow space. There are all kinds of wiring harnesses and relays plus multiple terminal blocks running through that area. It's a terrible area for a battery, but that's what they used and that's the space available to work with. Pull your Frunk liner, take a good look at the battery area.. even try to measure the available space and then come back with recommendations because right now you're making suggestions without facts and the physical limitations of the area you have available to work in.

The Rivian 12V batts are 7.375" x 3", so once you remove them you have a 14.75"X3" area to work with... please find a single 60aH or 100aH Lifepo battery that will fit in that space?

I didnt say users could retrofit a 60Ah lifepo in there to existing R1 vehicles.... I said Rivian could easily have a 60ah lifepo in there when designing the R1 vehicle 12v system.

This 30Ah lifepo battery easily fits into half of that space

https://a.co/d/1M4hrWJ

Lifepo batteries are simple ABS enclosures with cells and a BMS. You can build one in your garage. Since two 30ah lifepo are that identical size - a 60ah one could have easily been made by any ilfepo assembler that would fit in the existing layout of the Rivian R1.

A 60Ah cannot be retrofitted to existing R1 vehicles primarily because the rivian 12v charging system.

I mean if it had to be off the shelf batteries could have easily just connect the positives and negatives on that amazon lifepo..... I'd think it would make more sense in designing the R1 to put this in a single package though.

 

[MacO512]

Please tell this guy why having no physical key is a great idea...
https://www.rivianforums.com/forum/...ob-only-paak-can-f-all-the-the-way-off.42507/

Oh I'm sure theres dozens of examples where it would have helped. Still doesn't make any sense as an option for Rivian to factory install on every R1.

 

[MacO512]

Here is an off the shelf 100ah lifepo that is 10x5x9.

https://www.litime.com/products/12v-100ah-mini-lifepo4-battery

I'd think Rivian could easily have done a different design from the 14x3x8 current size to have fit something like that when designing the R1. The R1 is a large 3 row SUV - lots of space. The 12v doesn't even have to be in the frunk, could have been under a seat or something. Rivian just undersized the R1 12v system.

 

[NY_Rob]

^ not even close to fitting in that small OEM battery space, you have a 14.75" x 3" x 6.125" (L x W x H) area to work in. You especially need to look at the 6" height of the OEM batts... your 100ah battery is 9" high which can not fit in that area.

There is no easy solution given the small long narrow space available, that's why Rivian did what they did.

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